[nagdu] Advice Requested

Sat Jan 21 20:46:34 UTC 2012

Okay, I don't blame you for not tagging along.  , although I'd be curious to 
see how this person acted in your presence if there were also sighted 
witnesses.  Plus you're not being there could be misinterpreted as you not 
wanting to solve the problem.

Those of us who have had situations with our dogs in the past are offering 
advice from experience rather than speculation.  I understand why you don't 
want to be seen as adversarial, but documenting Emails and conversations in 
this situation isn't adversarial, it's you protecting yourself.  They might 
interpret it as you being defensive or confrontational, but a lawyer would 
see otherwise.  Keeping things off the record might work at first, but it 
sounds like this person isn't interested in sticking to the law, this is why 
I say document, document, document.

Believe me, the more proof you have that you're trying to work the problem 
out and are being thwarted by one person's misinterpretation of the law the 
easier it will be to go over their head.  It could be that their superior 
has no clue anything is going on.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!

Lisa Belville
missktlab1217 at frontier.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested

>I was not with him when he made the inspection. I had better things to do 
>with my life besides analyze doggy skid marks.
>
>
>
> He can love me or hate me, and I don't really care. He just got to know 
> that when pushed, I swing back and hit hard.
>
>
>
> My point of asking this on list besides simply venting is if he attempts 
> to pursue this any stronger than grumbling at me, what is my recourse. 
> What if anything can he due to me and how can I defend myself against it. 
> I am talking in the legal and school rules realms hear, I have no fears 
> that he would try anything other than administrative punishment.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>
>
>> Hmm, Interesting.  so the ODS director not only polices the college's 
>> property, but property that technically doesn't belong to the college? 
>> What then does this presumably educated person do when it comes to actual 
>> work? Getting paid to be outside looking for doggie skid marks seems a 
>> bit below someone with an advanced degree, but stranger things have 
>> happened.
>>
>> ?  And yes, that was sarcasm.
>>
>> I agree with the person who suggested that you get a sighted person to 
>> photograph the area.  When the director is pointing out these spots, do 
>> you have someone there who can confirm or deny the allegations or do you 
>> go out there alone with this person
>>
>> Surely people with other service dogs are missing spots here and there. 
>> Even fully sighted people don't get every single shred when they pick up, 
>> assuming they pick up.  Plus those using dogs for work like bracing or 
>> door opening may not be in a position to physically pick up after their 
>> dog, so how do they deal with this?
>>
>> I guess what I'm asking here is whether or not this director has an issue 
>> with service dogs in general or with you specifically.  The more I read, 
>> I have to wonder if it's some beef, real or imagined that this person has 
>> with you.
>>
>> Does your college have a disabled students club or some kind of social 
>> networking aspect specific to those with disabilities?  It might be worth 
>> it to go this route to at least learn whether or not you're being singled 
>> out. Even if this person isn't singling you out, this behavior is way 
>> over the top, IMO.
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>>
>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>
>> Lisa Belville
>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>>
>>> Yes, the director of the ODS office made a dog dropping inspection, and 
>>> counted "no less than 8 skid marks on the pavement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know who his boss is.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The security guards love my dog. I don't think it is them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Robert Hooper" <hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>
>>>
>>>> You shouldn't have to do that.
>>>>
>>>> Who, specifically, is giving you the hard time? Do you have people from 
>>>> ODS following you around everywhere? Who is telling them that it is 
>>>> your dog--could it be the aforementioned security guards in your dorm 
>>>> filing complaints? If so, they may make it sound a lot worse than it 
>>>> really is--the ODS people may be being told that there are massive 
>>>> chunks of doggy dung lying around instead of the occasional mustard 
>>>> blot. I just don't see how ODS would even know about your dog's 
>>>> relieving behavior. ODS at my school isn't interested in the slightest 
>>>> that I even have a dog, let alone when and where it poops. This 
>>>> situation is astonishing to me because of that. When I stroll into ODS, 
>>>> I get nothing but the occasional compliment about my "pretty shepherd" 
>>>> and then it's on to business. Has somebody from ODS been out there to 
>>>> check the specific spot? You should demand that they clean it up since 
>>>> their expertise about dog care knows no bounds. You should also inform 
>>>> them that you are a grown human being who managed to pass through a 
>>>> college admission screening process and that their attitude is 
>>>> disgusting, condescending, and appropriate toward a nine-year-old, not 
>>>> a competent individual such as yourself who strives to one day soon 
>>>> have a degree in hand. Ask them if they also want to monitor your 
>>>> pooping behavior and ensure that you are flushing after each #2 you 
>>>> make. Ask them also if they plan on eating a four course meal from the 
>>>> pavement in question, because if so, then there is a lot more that 
>>>> needs done to clean it up than Mr. Clean. Tell them that if they are 
>>>> going to treat you like a child, then you want them to also go after 
>>>> the drunks that puke on the pavement; those who urinate on the 
>>>> pavement; those who throw trash or food on the pavement; those who spit 
>>>> their gum on the pavement. Ask them if they care where your dog goes 
>>>> when you are at home because your home is just as off-campus as the 
>>>> place you take your dog when you are at school. Finally, demand of this 
>>>> person to see their supervisor, to whom you will say the same things 
>>>> until somebody decides to get off their power trip and treat you like 
>>>> you're the college student that you are, not their wayward naughty 
>>>> child.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the rant, but people and situations like that disgust, 
>>>> sicken, and sadden me. Of course, you probably shouldn't spout all that 
>>>> to anyone. At least make it sound more diplomatic first. However, I 
>>>> assure you that if it were me, that would be the overall impression I 
>>>> would try to leave with them. Whether they have a fancy policy about 
>>>> dog dung or not, it can't apply off-campus--no matter how close to 
>>>> campus it is--off campus is off campus. Period. It would be the 
>>>> equivalent of them saying "Clean up more carefully after your dog when 
>>>> you're at your mother's house. Otherwise, there will be consequences 
>>>> for you." Anyway, I hope you get that resolved. Don't hesitate to 
>>>> inform them of their deplorable attitude and patronizing policies.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Robert Hooper
>>>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>> The Ohio State University
>>>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>>>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>>>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>>>> (740) 856-8195
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:00 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>
>>>> I may just do that. But, I would rather not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:55 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Take the dog behind the chain, then and if there is a problem you can 
>>>>> say
>>>>> that the ODS office has given you no choice because of their
>>>>> obstructionist
>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>> They really don't sound nice, my god
>>>>>
>>>>> In my opinion, take your dog where it's convenient for you and 
>>>>> fornicate
>>>>> them if they don't like it.
>>>>> Easy for me to say right--smile--I'm not the one who has to live with
>>>>> this.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I just find it unconscionable, after all training with your first 
>>>>> dog
>>>>> is
>>>>> so stressful and now to have this idiocy you have to deal with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:48 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Cc: President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you to everyone for your response.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My dog does not mind pavement relieving. The patch of pavement I am 
>>>>> using
>>>>> is
>>>>> public property and not owned by the school. I believe all the school 
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing is blowing hot air.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no grass available for several blocks, and the area is not 
>>>>> safe
>>>>> after about 10:00pm. The location I am currently using is well lit, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> visible to the officers at the security desk of my dorm.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What kinds of modifications can the school require I make to my dog's
>>>>> relieving practices? He is going on the shoulder of the rode, in a 
>>>>> sort of
>>>>> inlet that leads down an alley. There is a chain across the alley that 
>>>>> if
>>>>> I
>>>>> passed it I would be on private property. I don't go passed the chain.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am removing 95% or higher of every deposit. They are still griping 
>>>>> at me
>>>>> for when due to no fault of my own, some remnants get stuck to the
>>>>> pavement
>>>>> witch can't be removed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also a trash can within 20ft of this patch of pavement I 
>>>>> deposit
>>>>> the bagged waist in this trash receptacle.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the policy and procedure recommended by Fidelco. The school is
>>>>> threatening to write me up for a violation of the ODS amendment to the
>>>>> student handbook. This section does not specify a punishment, so the
>>>>> punishment would be at the discretion of the school.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not the first student to have a guide dog on campus, however, I 
>>>>> am
>>>>> the
>>>>> only one the ODS office has decided to harass. There is another 
>>>>> student in
>>>>> my dorm with a guide dog. However her dog is much smaller than my dog,
>>>>> with
>>>>> a corresponding reduction in size of its deposit. This student takes 
>>>>> her
>>>>> dog
>>>>>
>>>>> behind the aforementioned chain onto private property. I am not
>>>>> comfortable
>>>>> in doing this without the consent of the property owner. I am unable 
>>>>> to
>>>>> determine the property owner; however, I believe it is owned by either 
>>>>> the
>>>>> state or federal government. The property belongs to either a 
>>>>> courthouse
>>>>> or
>>>>> office building or perhaps both.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hooper.90%40buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/missktlab1217%40frontier.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/missktlab1217%40frontier.com 