[nagdu] Inclusive discussion
Cindy Ray
cindyray at gmail.com
Fri Jul 13 21:43:55 UTC 2012
Eventually, I expect the speeches will be on the site for download.
Cindy Lou
On Jul 13, 2012, at 4:30 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
> Will Maurer's banquet speech be in the Monitor or where else can I read it?
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>
>
>> Hi Lyn,
>>
>> You are so right. Just read Dr. Maurer's banquet speech this year to see
>> some great examples of the stereotypes.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Lyn Gwizdak
>> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:59 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>>
>> Yeah, I've seen this. the disabled and blind are left out all the time
>> UNLESS we get some really rabble-rousing disabled and blind folks on
>> committees planning stuff.
>>
>> I see this with our LGBT Pride planning. Last year, as i walked up to the
>> enterence to the festival after the parade, the guy there saw me approach
>> working my dog - IN HARNESS - and proceded to tell me that I couldn't bring
>> my PET inside! I was - "Say WHAT?? Haven't you ever seen a guide dog?? what
>> planet did you come off of!?" as I handed him my ticket and walked in. I
>> was none too happy and I did get into the festival. And I saw an awful lot
>> of these little yappy things that evedently were supposedly "service dogs".
>> Pets weren't supposed to be there. This year, I met a blind guide dog user
>> who is on this year's planning committee and they are doing more to help the
>> blind and disabled participants enjoy the festival more fully. the plans
>> look good and time will tell what goes sideways or what actually happens and
>> works! I may join that planning committee next year or at least give my own
>> input.
>>
>> Mike, I seem to see the words, "inclusivity" and "diversity" used
>> interchangably and meaning basically the same thing in my involvements in
>> political movements, activities, and groups. there is always room for
>> improvement in all of this.
>>
>> It seems that the disabled have been closeted away for centuries and it may
>> take some more centuries to see true inclusiveness of all kinds of human
>> beings. Guess that leaves us all out!
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 7:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>>
>>
>>> Well, people with disabilities aren't seen as a group to include as a
>>> minority. They aren't seen at all, not even by my church, which as a whole
>>
>>> claims they are trying to improve this. They are in some ways, but most of
>>
>>> that is because of the work of Presbyterians for Disability Concerns.
>>> Cindy Lou
>>>
>>> On Jul 7, 2012, at 11:45 PM, Michael Hingson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not if you are going to classify yourself as "inclusive".
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Steven Johnson
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 01:16 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>>>>
>>>> Michael, then at which point, and I am assuming that this is an important
>>>> value/concept, does cultural competency come into play.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Michael Hingson
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:51 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion
>>>>
>>>> Margo,
>>>>
>>>> I choose "inclusion" to describe a state of being precisely because you
>>>> are
>>>> "inclusive" or not. If you wish to say you, or an organization is
>>>> "inclusive", then you are or you are not. You can't decide you are
>>>> inclusive if you determine that one class or another is not worth
>>>> thinking
>>>> about. If you leave out any group of people then you are not truly
>>>> "inclusive".
>>>>
>>>> I just searched Google for a definition of "inclusive" and found this:
>>>> "Inclusive means something that does not leave any part or group out."
>>>> There is no middle ground.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Margo and Arrow
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:43 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>>>
>>>> Michael, this is precisely why I discourage people from using the term
>>>> "diversity". Now I know Julie used it because that's what the training
>>>> was
>>>> called. I'd like to see "inclusivity training" or some other term using
>>>> the
>>>> word "inclusion" or "inclusive" or some other derivation for this type of
>>>> training. Now, having said that, people can forget and exclude a group
>>>> from
>>>> being included because a group is not thought of as important enough or
>>>> credible enough or worldly enough to be included.
>>>>
>>>> I truly believe that we are not included in varous trainings or group
>>>> situations because it is thought that we wouldn't have jobs, we're being
>>>> taken care of, we're not out in the world, what do the blind know anyway,
>>
>>>> we
>>>> couldn't live without our doggies, we are to be pitied. I think to teach
>>>> inclusion is to not only teach what groups are to be included and that
>>>> all
>>>> people are included and how to include all people, but, respecting
>>>> others--what does tha mean in the inclusion process?
>>>>
>>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:13 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Margo,
>>>>>
>>>>> That is why "Diversity" is such an inappropriate term to use when
>>>>> discussing bringing all "different" groups together. Last year I
>>>>> wrote a speech I often give called "Moving From Diversity to
>>>>> Inclusion". If a group or a person is "inclusive" then there is no
>>>>> room for leaving out anyone or you are using the term incorrectly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last October I conducted a workshop at a group discussing and
>>>>> promoting "Diversity". During the morning keynote speech the speaker
>>>>> did not once mention disabilities as a part of the diverse range of
>>>>> groups who are left out of society. So, Margo, you are right in your
>>>> observation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 09:30 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone noticed that in diversity training or sensitivity training,
>>>>> the disabled are often excluded or glossed over, including no
>>>>> education about service animals?
>>>>>
>>>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:47 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with both of you. Julie, your experience with diversity
>>>>>> training is similar to mine. I'm happy to learn about other
>>>>>> cultures, but the whole thing seemed pretty phony. And I'll take
>>>>>> respect over understanding every time.Just respect me as an adult
>>>>>> fellow human, and we're good.
>>>>>> Understanding may follow, but, even if it doesn't, it doesn't matter,
>>>>>> since, if you respect me, you'll either figure I have the brains to
>>>>>> work things out myself, or you'll ask if I need a hand.
>>>>>> And Buddy, I too don't see it as my mission in life to educate
>>>>>> everyone I meet about blindness. I reckon just getting on with my
>>>>>> life ought to be enough. If they harass me, I'll explain the law or
>>>> whatever, but mainly
>>>>>> I have places to go and things to do.
>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right on, right on, right on! I'm sure some of my fellow blind folk
>>>>>>> will take issue with this, but I'm so over educating the public.
>>>>>>> Look what good it's done for us, your conference coordinator being a
>>>>>>> shining example.
>>>>>>> Darn it all, we don't need education. While ignorance is curable,
>>>>>>> there's plenty of education to be had, should people care to have
>>>>>>> it, and it doesn't have to come from me. It's time that we quit with
>>>>>>> this belief that our lot in life is to be the ambassador for every
>>>>>>> stink in blind person out there and by god just live our lives and
>>>>>>> do our things. But it's also time that we demand the respect due us
>>>>>>> as human beings.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2012, at 8:08 AM, "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wrote a bit about this a couple of weeks ago, but I've been
>>>>>>>> thinking more on the topic ...I know scary! LOL Anyway I attended
>>>>>>>> this diversity training seminar last spring. It was a part of a
>>>>>>>> larger training event on drug/alcohol prevention and not something
>>>>>>>> I would have attended separately. anyway the presenter talked
>>>>>>>> about education and understanding different cultures and whatnot.
>>>>>>>> There was a lot of emphasis on what she called cultural competency,
>>>>>>>> which I took to mean being educated about various cultures.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the whole time I'm sitting there listening to this presentation I'm
>>>>>>>> thinking about the conversation we had about my hotel reservations.
>>>>>>>> This particular presenter was the coordinator for the conference.
>>>>>>>> She made the hotel reservations for many of the attendees because
>>>>>>>> the sponsoring agency was covering the hotel. It's much easier to
>>>>>>>> do the paperwork that way. Anyway she knows I'm blind and that I
>>>>>>>> have
>>>> Monty.
>>>>>>>> she also knows I can walk up and down stairs and whatnot. Still
>>>>>>>> she informed the hotel that I needed a first floor room and that
>>>>>>>> I'd be accompanied by a guide dog. she also assured the hotel that
>>>>>>>> I'd be no problem that I was quite independent. I have no words to
>>>>>>>> express my feelings about this statement. Unimpressed is about the
>>>>>>>> nicest thing I can say.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So back to diversity training...she's talking about understanding
>>>>>>>> and education and how important it is to know all about other
>>>>>>>> people of various cultures, races, disabilities etc. Immediately
>>>>>>>> after this lecture we have a break where no less than three people
>>>>>>>> come up to me to ask inappropriate questions or to pet Monty
>>>>>>>> without asking. Honestly I'm not opposed to answering questions,
>>>>>>>> but when I'm engaged in a different conversation and you interrupt
>>>>>>>> to ask how much I can see, well it's just rude. It was at that
>>>>>>>> moment that I realized that I don't give a crap about education or
>>>>>>>> understanding or cultural competency or whatever you want to call
>>>>>>>> it. Sure if people understood, I mean really got it, about
>>>>>>>> blindness that would be grand. I don't need that though.
>>>>>>>> What I really, really want is respect.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you all think?
>>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> name
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizon.ne
>>>>> t
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>> t
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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