[nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users

[Laurel]

Personally, I would only report another guide dog user if it was a
huge issue, such as their guide dog attacked mine, or they were
clearly abusing their dog, or their life or the dog's life was clearly
in danger. Example of this would be if I saw somebody beating their
dog or something crazy that I know none of you all would ever even
think about doing. I would never report somebody just because they did
things differently. I might disagree with a way that another handler
might do something, but ultimately, it's none of my business how other
people decide to handle their dogs.

I have seen people try to report other people though. I have observed
situations where people didn't agree with a specific individuals
course of action in a particular situation and because of that they
attempted to make this person's life hell. All I will say on the topic
is, if a person is mature enough and responsible enough to have a
guide, and is probably an adult, then act like it. Treat people the
way you wanna be treated. I have seen this happen and I've seen how
nasty it can get.

Anyway, yes, this does happen, most of the time without merritt, but
on occasion I would say there are good reasons to report somebody. I
would never report somebody though unless I was absolutely, 100% sure
that something horrible was going on.
Anyway, hope that sort of answers your question,
Laurel and Stockard

On 6/9/12, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
> Not me!  I would only report on really big issues that I have observed.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 1:30 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users
>
>
>> My question is this: Do guide dog users routinely report other guide dog
>> users to their training program and trainer for minor mishaps mentioned on
>>
>> discussion lists. Or because the guide dog user being reported doesn't use
>>
>> the collar the reporter believes they should use, stuff like that? And do
>>
>> they do it in a way that makes the one they are reporting sound super
>> irresponsible and unwilling to listen to help? For that matter, would most
>>
>> trainers take these reports seriously, over the information given by the
>> guide dog user who has been reported to them?
>>
>> Okay, here's my long explanation behind the questions:
>>
>> Since I'm an owner-trainer, the notion that another guide dog user might
>> report me to my trainer for any reason has never troubled my fluffy little
>>
>> head before.
>>
>> Only I recently found out that this sort of thing actually happens! Not
>> for witnessed events of great severity as some of the "what would you do"
>>
>> discussions of awhile ago, where there was a scenario involving one guide
>>
>> dog attacking another and causing injury and another involving a guide dog
>>
>> user reportedly regularly blowing a street crossing so badly as to cause
>> risk of traffic accidents in addition to putting himself and his dog in
>> danger. In those, I think a few people raised the notion of getting in
>> touch with the guide dog user's school but I don't remember that there was
>>
>> a consensus that this would be an appropriate course of action. They were
>>
>> "what if" questions, so no consensus was needed. /smile/
>>
>> Anyway, I'm pretty shocked to learn that there are guide dog users who
>> will report other guide dog users for blurbs on e-mail discussion lists.
>> Not this one, but it recently happened. And now I find out it has happened
>>
>> before, with the same group of people doing the reporting.
>>
>> So, let's say that I mention in that group that Mitzi did X in random
>> chatter, thinking I was among friends. Suddenly, some people are asking me
>>
>> questions, which I answer to clear things up... Then they start insist
>> that I said something 3 months ago that contradicts what I just said about
>>
>> what Mitzi did yesterday, and then I get upset and rattled and try to
>> clear things up.... So then there's blood in the water.
>>
>> Next thing I know, I get a letter from my trainer about what I said on the
>>
>> list and then another one which is where I find out people from this group
>>
>> have been getting in touch with him/her repeatedly about how they're
>> helping me but I won't listen and stuff like that, because I don't do
>> exactly what they tell me to do faithfully no matter what it is.
>>
>> Since I know the people involved and the dog in question fairly well, I
>> wasn't surprised by the verbal attack by a certain few members of the
>> group. Sigh. Maybe they do think they're helping, but... Um... Oh, well. I
>>
>> was just shocked to learn that one or more of them would go so far as to
>> call the trainer on another user because of a blip on a list. Sheesh! I
>> guess that this actually goes on in that group. Heavens! Oddly, the
>> "helpers" there chat a lot on that list and go to the same school and have
>>
>> the same trainer... Which makes me wonder if they should get a great big
>> van and fill it with crates and take the whole lot of dogs back to school.
>>
>> /lol/ I'm delving in sarcasm there, but the list of things I can recall
>> that these helpful guide dog users have reported their dogs getting up to
>>
>> are fairly amazing. They're all relatively new dogs, young dogs, so I tend
>>
>> to figure the handlers are getting it worked out and can figure out for
>> themselves if they need to contact the trainer. But, I guess, If I were to
>>
>> follow their fine example... No, of course, I won't do that. That's just
>> so... Tacky! /lol/
>>
>> So my question is: Does this actually go on? Do guide dog users report
>> other guide dog users just to be manipulative and retaliatory or whatever?
>>
>> Even if it's clearly stated that the guide dog user they are reporting is
>>
>> in contact with the trainer over the matter they mention?
>>
>> Well, I'm suddenly feeling really smug that if any of these folks want to
>>
>> report me to my trainer, they are welcome to! My trainer will treat their
>>
>> reports with all the attention they deserve.
>>
>> Oh, they've helped me, too! By explaining sternly that I should never
>> stick sharp metal implements into my poodle's ear canals... I'm not making
>>
>> that up. I mean, that is a true statement, I can agree to that. However...
>>
>> Do I *look* that stupid? /lol/ I kinda figured that one out on my own
>> years ago, so I don't know that telling me to do something I know better
>> than to do is helpful. I've been helped to understand the bus routes
>> around my home. Again, apparently, I really am too stupid to work that out
>>
>> on my own somehow... Sheesh!
>>
>> So I haven't fallen all over myself in gratitude or listened, really... So
>>
>> I could be reported, I am sure! Well, and I don't have a certified guide,
>>
>> no ID card to flash... Why would I owner-train when I could get a
>> certified guide dog? Um... For those who are relatively new enough to have
>>
>> not read any of those discussions, there is no such thing as a certified
>> guide dog in terms of the ADA and access to places of public
>> accommodation. The guide dog training programs must be certified for the
>> consumer's protection. The trainers must also be certified to work at the
>>
>> certified guide dog training program. The dogs are not certified. The nice
>>
>> ID cards often have the relevant portions of the law printed on them,
>> which does make them useful. They do not grant you access to anything at
>> all, and it is illegal for anyone to ask you to show them. /smile/ It's
>> your dog's training for your disability that counts, and your dog's good
>> behavior, etc., once you walk into a place. But I have a feeling I am
>> being "taught by example" for being the other guide dog user's friend and
>>
>> for being an owner-trainer by having things addressed to me that make a
>> point of mentioning the flashing of ID cards. /lol/ I've never even said
>> there what I *really* think of that practice! It's anyone's choice what
>> they do with the ID card from their school, so why get uptight about it?
>> /lol/
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>