[nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users

Sun Jun 10 05:18:23 UTC 2012

I've never had GDB call me because of a complaint, and I'm sure I'd be
incredibly annoyed if somebody complained to GDB about me without
merritt. But I spose if GDB ever did call me because of a complaint
unfounded by an uneducated member of the public, or from another guide
dog team with a grudge, I would at least appreciate the fact that they
take their complaints seriously. I guess I'd rather have them call me
about something that isn't a big deal, then allow something that would
be a big deal to go unchecked.

I will say though, that there is a way to go about handling complaints
and a way not to. These handlers who bash other handlers, whether on
list or to other people face to face, need to get a life. Nobody has
done such a thing on list, but in reference to situations that have
been briefly brought up as part of this conversation.
Anyway, just my 2 cents,
Laurel and Stockard

On 6/9/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have been reported on several occasions by either people that have
> decided they no longer like me or by members of the public who don't
> realize why I am correcting my dog, what a correction is supposed to
> look like, or whatever. I have gotten one call from the Seeing Eye
> informing me that I was reported and asking me if I was working OK
> with my dog and whether I was having an issues, and after explaining
> to them that Abbie is well, that I won't allow her to chase squirrels
> particularly while crossing a street and that one of those animal
> abuse nutts saw that and questioned me, they asked no more questions
> and I went about with my day with no more worry. It goes the other
> way, too though. I have called in to a school to report a very
> aggressive dog at Leader Dogs and was ignored, or at least it appeared
> that I was ignored. I also called Pilot Dogs because of one of their
> dog teams having very serious issues and was ignored. I think that
> there should be a way to file complaints and that complaints should be
> checked out whenever possible so long as it doesn't interfere with the
> working dog team. I had no problems whatsoever with the Seeing Eye
> calling me and asking me if I required assistance or if my work with
> Abbie was going well, and I have no problems with them educating the
> public when they call to complain about something I do especially if
> my school knows me and knows that I would not abuse my dog and that I
> have always communicated with them promptly when problems did come up.
> I do have issues though when teams do have serious issues and the
> schools ignore calls and complaints about a team. If someone truly saw
> me abusing my dog or my school received many complaints about the same
> issue, I hope they would do something other than call me and ask me if
> I was OK.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 6/9/12, Jenny Keller <jlperdue3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tammy,
>>
>> Start at the DMV, then go directly to the Social Security Office, then go
>> to
>> your bank right after that.
>>
>> try to do it all in the same day if you can.  the next day, if you get
>> medicaid and Food Stamps, go there.  You can call the 1-800-772-1213
>> number
>> for a replacement Medicare card.
>>
>> the only people I haven't gotten my name changed with is the Food
>> Stamp/Medicaid people, and that's not for lack of trying.  they have been
>> the ones to not do their jobs properly, so I have to go back down there
>> again probably next week.
>>
>> I had ingrown toenails removed of both sides of my toes on both big toes,
>> so
>> walking is not my most favorite thing to do now.  My feet have swollen
>> since
>> then, and that's been since Wednesday.
>>
>> I didn't think that it was going to be this big of a deal, the thing with
>> my
>> toes, but boy oh boy was I wrong.
>>
>> Good night have have a great rest of your weekend.
>>
>> Jenny
>> On Jun 9, 2012, at 5:16 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>>
>>> Jenny,
>>>
>>> Yes, I remember hearing about that and your telling about it. Sigh. In
>>> fact, it's your story that I keep thinking of and then worrying about
>>> this
>>> similar situation that I am closer to. Sigh. Life is too short!
>>>
>>> I'm glad you're back and getting on with your applications, extra
>>> frustrations and all. Yikes! I have a bunch of that same identity stuff
>>> to
>>> get worked out, too, moreso since I recently got married and now have to
>>> get my name switched everywhere only... Where to start! /lol/ I'm afraid
>>> to start in the places I'm required to in case they get more screwed up
>>> and stop getting the checks to me... This week, it is on the agenda, but
>>> I
>>> just shudder to think.
>>>
>>> Take care, and I'm glad you're hear and sharing your quest for your next
>>> dog. /smile/
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
>>> On 06/09/2012 01:05 PM, Jenny Keller wrote:
>>>> To answer your question.
>>>>
>>>> YES when I was having issues with my former guide last Easter and had
>>>> to
>>>> retire him.  I told the list what had happened and let them know that
>>>> the
>>>> school I had gotten the dog from had done some dirty manipulation to
>>>> get
>>>> me to come back there after I had applied somewhere else and they found
>>>> out about it.
>>>>
>>>> there were threats made that if they found out what guide dog school I
>>>> had applied to now, that they would assure that I never got a guide dog
>>>> again, and that I was a horrible handler, and that I was a B***h and
>>>> that
>>>> I never should've been given a dog in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> The person that received that threat is on this list, though I will not
>>>> mention their name for their privacy.
>>>>
>>>> there are people who think they know best and will certainly stick
>>>> their
>>>> noses where it doesn't belong because they think they know best.
>>>>
>>>> It is important to watch what you say on any list.
>>>>
>>>> Jenny
>>>> On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My question is this: Do guide dog users routinely report other guide
>>>>> dog
>>>>> users to their training program and trainer for minor mishaps
>>>>> mentioned
>>>>> on discussion lists. Or because the guide dog user being reported
>>>>> doesn't use the collar the reporter believes they should use, stuff
>>>>> like
>>>>> that? And do they do it in a way that makes the one they are reporting
>>>>> sound super irresponsible and unwilling to listen to help? For that
>>>>> matter, would most trainers take these reports seriously, over the
>>>>> information given by the guide dog user who has been reported to them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, here's my long explanation behind the questions:
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I'm an owner-trainer, the notion that another guide dog user
>>>>> might
>>>>> report me to my trainer for any reason has never troubled my fluffy
>>>>> little head before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only I recently found out that this sort of thing actually happens!
>>>>> Not
>>>>> for witnessed events of great severity as some of the "what would you
>>>>> do" discussions of awhile ago, where there was a scenario involving
>>>>> one
>>>>> guide dog attacking another and causing injury and another involving a
>>>>> guide dog user reportedly regularly blowing a street crossing so badly
>>>>> as to cause risk of traffic accidents in addition to putting himself
>>>>> and
>>>>> his dog in danger. In those, I think a few people raised the notion of
>>>>> getting in touch with the guide dog user's school but I don't remember
>>>>> that there was a consensus that this would be an appropriate course of
>>>>> action. They were "what if" questions, so no consensus was needed.
>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I'm pretty shocked to learn that there are guide dog users who
>>>>> will report other guide dog users for blurbs on e-mail discussion
>>>>> lists.
>>>>> Not this one, but it recently happened. And now I find out it has
>>>>> happened before, with the same group of people doing the reporting.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, let's say that I mention in that group that Mitzi did X in random
>>>>> chatter, thinking I was among friends. Suddenly, some people are
>>>>> asking
>>>>> me questions, which I answer to clear things up... Then they start
>>>>> insist that I said something 3 months ago that contradicts what I just
>>>>> said about what Mitzi did yesterday, and then I get upset and rattled
>>>>> and try to clear things up.... So then there's blood in the water.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next thing I know, I get a letter from my trainer about what I said on
>>>>> the list and then another one which is where I find out people from
>>>>> this
>>>>> group have been getting in touch with him/her repeatedly about how
>>>>> they're helping me but I won't listen and stuff like that, because I
>>>>> don't do exactly what they tell me to do faithfully no matter what it
>>>>> is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I know the people involved and the dog in question fairly well,
>>>>> I
>>>>> wasn't surprised by the verbal attack by a certain few members of the
>>>>> group. Sigh. Maybe they do think they're helping, but... Um... Oh,
>>>>> well.
>>>>> I was just shocked to learn that one or more of them would go so far
>>>>> as
>>>>> to call the trainer on another user because of a blip on a list.
>>>>> Sheesh!
>>>>> I guess that this actually goes on in that group. Heavens! Oddly, the
>>>>> "helpers" there chat a lot on that list and go to the same school and
>>>>> have the same trainer... Which makes me wonder if they should get a
>>>>> great big van and fill it with crates and take the whole lot of dogs
>>>>> back to school. /lol/ I'm delving in sarcasm there, but the list of
>>>>> things I can recall that these helpful guide dog users have reported
>>>>> their dogs getting up to are fairly amazing. They're all relatively
>>>>> new
>>>>> dogs, young dogs, so I tend to figure the handlers are getting it
>>>>> worked
>>>>> out and can figure out for themselves if they need to contact the
>>>>> trainer. Bu
>>> t, I guess, If I were to follow their fine example... No, of course, I
>>> won't do that. That's just so... Tacky! /lol/
>>>>>
>>>>> So my question is: Does this actually go on? Do guide dog users report
>>>>> other guide dog users just to be manipulative and retaliatory or
>>>>> whatever? Even if it's clearly stated that the guide dog user they are
>>>>> reporting is in contact with the trainer over the matter they mention?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I'm suddenly feeling really smug that if any of these folks want
>>>>> to report me to my trainer, they are welcome to! My trainer will treat
>>>>> their reports with all the attention they deserve.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, they've helped me, too! By explaining sternly that I should never
>>>>> stick sharp metal implements into my poodle's ear canals... I'm not
>>>>> making that up. I mean, that is a true statement, I can agree to that.
>>>>> However... Do I *look* that stupid? /lol/ I kinda figured that one out
>>>>> on my own years ago, so I don't know that telling me to do something I
>>>>> know better than to do is helpful. I've been helped to understand the
>>>>> bus routes around my home. Again, apparently, I really am too stupid
>>>>> to
>>>>> work that out on my own somehow... Sheesh!
>>>>>
>>>>> So I haven't fallen all over myself in gratitude or listened,
>>>>> really...
>>>>> So I could be reported, I am sure! Well, and I don't have a certified
>>>>> guide, no ID card to flash... Why would I owner-train when I could get
>>>>> a
>>>>> certified guide dog? Um... For those who are relatively new enough to
>>>>> have not read any of those discussions, there is no such thing as a
>>>>> certified guide dog in terms of the ADA and access to places of public
>>>>> accommodation. The guide dog training programs must be certified for
>>>>> the
>>>>> consumer's protection. The trainers must also be certified to work at
>>>>> the certified guide dog training program. The dogs are not certified.
>>>>> The nice ID cards often have the relevant portions of the law printed
>>>>> on
>>>>> them, which does make them useful. They do not grant you access to
>>>>> anything at all, and it is illegal for anyone to ask you to show them.
>>>>> /smile/ It's your dog's training for your disability that counts, and
>>>>> your dog's good behavior, etc., once you walk into a place. But I have
>>>>> a
>>>>> feeli
>>> ng I am being "taught by example" for being the other guide dog user's
>>> friend and for being an owner-trainer by having things addressed to me
>>> that make a point of mentioning the flashing of ID cards. /lol/ I've
>>> never
>>> even said there what I *really* think of that practice! It's anyone's
>>> choice what they do with the ID card from their school, so why get
>>> uptight
>>> about it? /lol/
>>>>>
>>>>> Tami
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Cordially,
>
> Nimer Jaber
>
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