[nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users

[Lyn Gwizdak]

Hi Jenny,
To me, if a school will reject a prospective student based on hearsay, they 
ain't worth it.  Staff from a decent school will always give a person the 
benefit of the doubt and determine - after meeting said applicant, doing a 
Juno walk with said applicant - to determine if that applicant would be 
sucessful in their program.  Period.  Seeing Eye is such a school.

So what did your former school threaten you with had you gone ahead and 
applied to Seeing Eye?  What could they do to you?  If they talked smack 
about you to another school you applied to and that school turned you down 
based on that and never even interacting with you, well, that school ain't 
worth it.  Don't let anyone cow you.  That school acted like a bully as far 
as I can tell from what you said happened.  Bullies MUST be stood up to. 
Get allies if you need to, but STAND UP to them.  Did that school actually 
come out and call you a b***t?  That sure was very sexist of them if they 
did.  That is a common slur towards any female who stands up for herself. 
Call them on that as well. You deserve respect and nothing less and don't 
let anyone tell you otherwise.

I hope that you have much better luck with the school you have applied to 
and get a good dog.  There is a dog out there for you and you just have yet 
to meet it! (grin!)

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jenny Keller" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Third party reporting by other guide dog users


> To answer your question.
>
> YES when I was having issues with my former guide last Easter and had to 
> retire him.  I told the list what had happened and let them know that the 
> school I had gotten the dog from had done some dirty manipulation to get 
> me to come back there after I had applied somewhere else and they found 
> out about it.
>
> there were threats made that if they found out what guide dog school I had 
> applied to now, that they would assure that I never got a guide dog again, 
> and that I was a horrible handler, and that I was a B***h and that I never 
> should've been given a dog in the first place.
>
> The person that received that threat is on this list, though I will not 
> mention their name for their privacy.
>
> there are people who think they know best and will certainly stick their 
> noses where it doesn't belong because they think they know best.
>
> It is important to watch what you say on any list.
>
> Jenny
> On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>
>> My question is this: Do guide dog users routinely report other guide dog 
>> users to their training program and trainer for minor mishaps mentioned 
>> on discussion lists. Or because the guide dog user being reported doesn't 
>> use the collar the reporter believes they should use, stuff like that? 
>> And do they do it in a way that makes the one they are reporting sound 
>> super irresponsible and unwilling to listen to help? For that matter, 
>> would most trainers take these reports seriously, over the information 
>> given by the guide dog user who has been reported to them?
>>
>> Okay, here's my long explanation behind the questions:
>>
>> Since I'm an owner-trainer, the notion that another guide dog user might 
>> report me to my trainer for any reason has never troubled my fluffy 
>> little head before.
>>
>> Only I recently found out that this sort of thing actually happens! Not 
>> for witnessed events of great severity as some of the "what would you do" 
>> discussions of awhile ago, where there was a scenario involving one guide 
>> dog attacking another and causing injury and another involving a guide 
>> dog user reportedly regularly blowing a street crossing so badly as to 
>> cause risk of traffic accidents in addition to putting himself and his 
>> dog in danger. In those, I think a few people raised the notion of 
>> getting in touch with the guide dog user's school but I don't remember 
>> that there was a consensus that this would be an appropriate course of 
>> action. They were "what if" questions, so no consensus was needed. 
>> /smile/
>>
>> Anyway, I'm pretty shocked to learn that there are guide dog users who 
>> will report other guide dog users for blurbs on e-mail discussion lists. 
>> Not this one, but it recently happened. And now I find out it has 
>> happened before, with the same group of people doing the reporting.
>>
>> So, let's say that I mention in that group that Mitzi did X in random 
>> chatter, thinking I was among friends. Suddenly, some people are asking 
>> me questions, which I answer to clear things up... Then they start insist 
>> that I said something 3 months ago that contradicts what I just said 
>> about what Mitzi did yesterday, and then I get upset and rattled and try 
>> to clear things up.... So then there's blood in the water.
>>
>> Next thing I know, I get a letter from my trainer about what I said on 
>> the list and then another one which is where I find out people from this 
>> group have been getting in touch with him/her repeatedly about how 
>> they're helping me but I won't listen and stuff like that, because I 
>> don't do exactly what they tell me to do faithfully no matter what it is.
>>
>> Since I know the people involved and the dog in question fairly well, I 
>> wasn't surprised by the verbal attack by a certain few members of the 
>> group. Sigh. Maybe they do think they're helping, but... Um... Oh, well. 
>> I was just shocked to learn that one or more of them would go so far as 
>> to call the trainer on another user because of a blip on a list. Sheesh! 
>> I guess that this actually goes on in that group. Heavens! Oddly, the 
>> "helpers" there chat a lot on that list and go to the same school and 
>> have the same trainer... Which makes me wonder if they should get a great 
>> big van and fill it with crates and take the whole lot of dogs back to 
>> school. /lol/ I'm delving in sarcasm there, but the list of things I can 
>> recall that these helpful guide dog users have reported their dogs 
>> getting up to are fairly amazing. They're all relatively new dogs, young 
>> dogs, so I tend to figure the handlers are getting it worked out and can 
>> figure out for themselves if they need to contact the trainer. But, I 
>> guess, If I were to follow their fine example... No, of course, I won't 
>> do that. That's just so... Tacky! /lol/
>>
>> So my question is: Does this actually go on? Do guide dog users report 
>> other guide dog users just to be manipulative and retaliatory or 
>> whatever? Even if it's clearly stated that the guide dog user they are 
>> reporting is in contact with the trainer over the matter they mention?
>>
>> Well, I'm suddenly feeling really smug that if any of these folks want to 
>> report me to my trainer, they are welcome to! My trainer will treat their 
>> reports with all the attention they deserve.
>>
>> Oh, they've helped me, too! By explaining sternly that I should never 
>> stick sharp metal implements into my poodle's ear canals... I'm not 
>> making that up. I mean, that is a true statement, I can agree to that. 
>> However... Do I *look* that stupid? /lol/ I kinda figured that one out on 
>> my own years ago, so I don't know that telling me to do something I know 
>> better than to do is helpful. I've been helped to understand the bus 
>> routes around my home. Again, apparently, I really am too stupid to work 
>> that out on my own somehow... Sheesh!
>>
>> So I haven't fallen all over myself in gratitude or listened, really... 
>> So I could be reported, I am sure! Well, and I don't have a certified 
>> guide, no ID card to flash... Why would I owner-train when I could get a 
>> certified guide dog? Um... For those who are relatively new enough to 
>> have not read any of those discussions, there is no such thing as a 
>> certified guide dog in terms of the ADA and access to places of public 
>> accommodation. The guide dog training programs must be certified for the 
>> consumer's protection. The trainers must also be certified to work at the 
>> certified guide dog training program. The dogs are not certified. The 
>> nice ID cards often have the relevant portions of the law printed on 
>> them, which does make them useful. They do not grant you access to 
>> anything at all, and it is illegal for anyone to ask you to show them. 
>> /smile/ It's your dog's training for your disability that counts, and 
>> your dog's good behavior, etc., once you walk into a place. But I have a 
>> feeling I am being "taught by example" for being the other guide dog 
>> user's friend and for being an owner-trainer by having things addressed 
>> to me that make a point of mentioning the flashing of ID cards. /lol/ 
>> I've never even said there what I *really* think of that practice! It's 
>> anyone's choice what they do with the ID card from their school, so why 
>> get uptight about it? /lol/
>>
>> Tami
>>
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>
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