[nagdu] Ownership of guide dog

Nicole B. Torcolini at Home ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Wed Mar 14 19:26:12 UTC 2012


Okay, I am confused. You gave your dog to a friend to have as a pet, right? 
And then she used the harness on him/her?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog


> In the past, TSE has had problems with finding their harnesses being sold 
> on eBay to who knows.  All the schools have their name stamped on the 
> backstrap of the harness and people can see this.  GDB actually has a 
> cross plate on the handle that has the school's name and logo on it.
>
> I have no problem in returning the harness to the school if you no longer 
> have the dog or a current dog from the same school.  I have kept Jacob's 
> harness as a spare one to use in rainy weather.  Seeing Eye knows I have 
> it and they told me that it was OK to have one of their harnesses as long 
> as I had a dog from their school.  Also, you can buy extra harnesses and 
> such from them and many of the other schools won't even allow their 
> graduateas to purchase a spare!  That means that if something happens to 
> your dog's harness, you are stuck heeling the dog while you use a cane 
> until the school can mail or bring you a new one.  Totally unacceptable! 
> Yeah, like you getting only one set of car keys and if they got lost or 
> stolen, you can't drive the car until the company gets new keys to you - 
> unacceptable!
>
> As far as harming the school's reputation if a harness gets into the wrong 
> hands, it can happen.  Suppose a person gets a hold of a TSE harness and 
> puts it on a dog not trained to be a guide.  That person gets hit by a car 
> and the rescue people see the harness that says "The Seeing Eye" on the 
> backstrap of the harness.  If that rescue person has never seen a guide 
> dog, they may think TSE does a lousey job of training.  This scenerario 
> can be kind of far fetched, but it could happen.  The other reason  - and 
> more like it - is that the schools use old harnesses for training the dogs 
> before wwe get them and a new harness to go with the dog.  This does save 
> money for the school because a good harness is expensive to make.
>
> We can keep the collars and leashes as a memento of past dogs.  I still 
> have a fur saver one that I got with a dog I got years ago.  I know of a 
> school that doesn't even allow one to keep these items and I think that's 
> terrible. Interestingly, J&J Dog Supply Wholesalers sells a "service dog 
> leash" that is IDENTICAL to the one used by GDB - I have one.
>
> This is all just my own opinion and I do see the potential of paternalism 
> in the whole issue of the schools retaining ownership of equipment.  This 
> along with contracts.  I got burned by both issues.  Short version - I 
> retired a dog and gave it to a friend.  She had a guide dog from the same 
> school (not TSE) and then sent that dog back sometime after getting my 
> retired dog and moving out of state.  She kept the harness for her 
> sent-back dog.  I sent back my harness to the school.  Later, after I had 
> a dog friom another school and healed from an injury (about a year later) 
> I reapplied to the school for a new dog.  They denied me for "violating my 
> contract" and I supposedly gave the woman my harness to use the dog with. 
> She actually used the one she kept on my retired dog.  But I got blamed 
> for this.  After this, I applied to Seeing Eye and got a dog from there 
> and I will NOT go to another school that has a contract or any 
> paternalistic rules or policies - EVER AGAIN!
>
> I'm not going to trash the school and my experience with it was very 
> unfavorable and I will never go back there.  They do train good dogs and I 
> know folks here with dogs from there.  The dogs are good and the people 
> are happy and that's fine.  I know that I felt very humiliated and angry 
> at the paternalistic manner in which I was treated and I wish all the 
> schools were like TSE.  TSE's policies have been in place for over 80 
> years and they work!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brenda" <bjnite at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>
>
>> You have a very good point Rebecca. For my pet dogs, I keep their collar 
>> with all the rabies and yearly license tags.
>> brenda
>>
>> On 3/13/2012 8:38 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
>>> While I understand this to some extent, I'd like to know if this has 
>>> happened and any real impact it had on the schools.
>>> We found a picture of me hugging my first guide dog. I'm smiling and 
>>> it's Christmas. We know because the tree is also in the picture. It's a 
>>> great picture.
>>> When we found it, a flood of emotions came back, and I literally sat 
>>> down on the floor and cried.
>>>
>>> Both my dogs are gone now.  I deeply regret not keeping their harnesses 
>>> and leashes, as they are objects I can touch, and were so important. 
>>> This is especially true as my daughter has begun to want me to tell her 
>>> about each dog.
>>>
>>> The picture is now framed and on our wall.  My husband was able to get 
>>> the collar of my first dog from the family who adopted her, and we have 
>>> that hung up too.
>>>
>>> I do wish I'd kept both harness and leash combos.
>>>
>>> I understand the schools' point of view.  I used to agree with it.  I 
>>> don't anymore.
>>>
>>> I have never heard of  a school suffering negative impact from someone 
>>> using a harness or leash that they shouldn't. I have to wonder if the 
>>> schools have thought of the emotional impact of returning the harnesses 
>>> and leashes.
>>>   I suspect they have not.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 5:24 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>
>>> No, I doubt it. They say they want them back, I think, so that they 
>>> won't get sold to people who will use them in a phony way, such as 
>>> putting on their dog to pretend it is a guide.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> On Mar 12, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Hannah Chadwick wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cindy,
>>>> I thought it's because the harnesses and leashes are expensive and 
>>>> that's
>>>> why they are loaning them out to us.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 1:54 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership of guide dog
>>>>
>>>> That is an interesting analogy about the harness being the keys. TSE
>>>> maintains ownership of their harness;they have never asked for it back; 
>>>> I've
>>>> always returned them because I had no reason not to. But that is an
>>>> interesting analogy. I don't want them retaining ownership of my dog 
>>>> and
>>>> they don't, but I don't have a problem with them retaining ownership of 
>>>> my
>>>> harness, which I didn't even know about until recently. What is that 
>>>> about?
>>>> I do not know.
>>>> Cindy
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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