[nagdu] First dog concerns

[Tina Thomas]

Jenny- you have already stated that you don't agree with SE's methods on
traffic training. We get it okay. Now the moderator asked that this issue be
dropped so we as list members need to respect that and move on. 
Tina  
    

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jenny Keller
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 6:35 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] First dog concerns

I don't agree with the newspaper thing, which the writer said was used.

I don't like Southeastern's methods either having been through what I've
gone through with them.  But they use the tapping on the obstacles and a
leash correction and a tap of the foot on a missed step of curb and the
command watch when they are training the dog.

I don't think any dog should be struck on the nose with anything.

there was a woman that I went to school with, which one of the people on the
list knows, but maybe does not know this about her first dog.  the dog was
very unruly, and they tried everything from prong and pinch collars.  No
matter what they did, nothing worked.  

southeastern does not use gentle leaders or haul ties, so they didn't do
that.  the dog was discovered to have a bad tooth, and they thought that was
why he was acting so bad.  this was three weeks into the class.  When the
vet x-rayed the dog's mouth to find out how bad the tooth was, it was
discovered that the dog's NOSE, and you read that right, nose, was broken,
and no one, not the trainers, or anyone, knew about it.

It had been corrected, and corrected, and corrected, as firmly as possible
with many different collars and strengths.  But the real problem was that
the dog had to be in excruciating pain.  

You can bop a dog in the head with a soft instrument.  But the nose?  There
is no excuse for that at all, and I consider that abuse.

Jenny 
On Sep 7, 2012, at 1:45 AM, avapup.7 at gmail.com wrote:

> I mean, don't some schools at least train obstacle avoidance by smacking
the object ( not the dog! ) so that the dog associates the obstacle with a
loud unpleasant noise, thus avoiding it in the future? Or, if that's not
possible, say a dog in early-ish training is going to run her handler into a
glass window, the trainer ( the dog isn't placed yet, just in training )
will either use a sharp vocal correction or slap her or his leg, making the
dog-in-training avoid that window or similar ones in the future? Or is that
all outdated training now?
> 
> I didn't like hearing that The Seeing Eye was hitting dogs with
newspapers, but if they're using a foam ball type thing, I don't think that
would hurt the dog. I wonder if more traffic training done by the trainers
could eliminate the need for this? But when I think about it, and dogs
playing sure do hit each other a lot harder than a gentle tap! And if it
saves the life of both human and dog, I don't see anything wrong with a foam
type thing tapping a dog to teach or reinforce to the dog - don't approach
that car in the street!!
> 
> Ava and Cocoa
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 6, 2012, at 5:14 PM, "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net> wrote:
> 
>> No worries!  They NEVER harm a dog doing this to teach traffic to our
dogs. TSE uses a padded wand - they showed it to us - and give a very quick
poke. The dog is startled by this because they don't expect it and they
learn to watch for cars. Don't know what other schools use to teach this.
>> 
>> Years ago, dog or animal training was much more harsh and even what we
would currently call abusive.  Over the years training has gotten much
gentler and the dogs are not harmed during their training.  They don't even
have to do this to every dog - only the harder ones who don't respond to
less in-their-face type of training.
>> 
>> Teaching respect for moving traffic is truely a life-or-death thing and
the dogs MUST learn this so we are safe with being guided by them.
Actually, the dog thinks the CAR smacked them and never even realize that
the trainer, who is driving, poked them with that wand! Any dog who can't
learn traffic safely is dropped from the program.
>> 
>> HTH,
>> 
>> Lyn and Landon
> 
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