[nagdu] Fwd: [Juno-l] Message from Graham Buck

Tue Aug 6 02:46:21 UTC 2013

Hi all,

This is nearly exactly how I worked on this problem with my dog.  When
I got her, she was a huge scavenger, and she has a bad stomach, so you
can imagine the combination is wonderful.  Anyway, it worked wonders.
Now although Brie and I may have other things we need to work through,
food distraction isn't usually a problem.

It got to the point where Brie knew what I was doing.  I would put
plates of food around the house and have her guide me around them
without going for them.  I would praise her and give her pieces of her
dogfood as rewards for avoiding the food.  I knew she was getting
better when she wouldn't go close to the food.  She would try to find
a completely different path rather than walking by the food.

I also practiced dropping food near her.  I wouldn't look at her, just
eat and drop food on purpose to see if she would go for it.  Well, she
mastered that as well.  That was very hard to do because I couldn't
look at her or engage her at all until she successfully ignored the
dropped food, since I didn't want to tease her with it.  It sounds
like a lot of work, but if you have a scavenging dog with a sensitive
stomach, you would do the same, especially if you were going back to
high school.

On 8/5/13, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is wonderful and teaches us how to go back to basics, if we have a
> scavenger, which my retired guide was.
> 	I had done something similarly, but Graham's explanation is a lot
> clearer; this is definitely a keeper, as Huck is a full lab and loves his
> food very much, but I want him eating only what is in his bowl.
> 	I like crackers because it is easier to hear that "crunch" if you
> happen to have a dog who is more subtle about going after food. <grin>
> Darla & handsome, hardworking Huck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 12:01 PM
> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
> Subject: [nagdu] Fwd: [Juno-l] Message from Graham Buck
>
> Fantastic message from one of the trainers at Guiding Eyes. Informational
> purposes, blah blah, no affiliation, blah blah blah.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Becky Barnes <bbarnes at guidingeyes.org>
>> Subject: [Juno-l] Message from Graham Buck
>> Date: August 5, 2013 at 11:10:50 AM EDT
>> To: Juno-L <Juno-l at lists.screenreview.org>
>>
>> Scavenging issues
>>
>> Can be one of the more difficult areas to deal with at times with guides.
> They often will eye food under a table or on the floor.  Then usually when
> you start to move again, get up etc. the dog lunges and dives for the food.
> Initially the dog may not attempt to go for it but then when it realizes
> its
> moving away they make a quick approach to scoop it up. Many dogs seem to
> time the window between being successful with receiving the correction.
> They
> end up being corrected but it doesn't really change their behavior because
> they already got the food.
>>
>> Some patterning lessons help but they often don't hold once the game has
> ended. Negative reinforcement has to be done with a strong association to
> the food. Ultimately we want the dog to go into enough avoidance where they
> stay clear of the food and can then get reinforced for other things like
> going forward or getting to a curb.
>>
>> I would do the set up in this way. A couple of reps. With using leave it
> while food  is nearby but not reachable. Then move a bit closer. This time
> anytime the dog strains on the leash it is corrected. Start to preface it
> with leave it. If the dog yields to the collar pressure, orients back to
> the
> handler then praise.
>>
>> The next step is to try the same thing but be right at the food. If you
> have a sighted friend to help that would be useful for this part.  If the
> dog still attempts to go for the food the correction level is raised. The
> sighted person can quickly place their foot over the food before the dog
> gets it. Always remember this is a non negotiable area so you can go to a
> higher level correction. It's not like guide work where we are always going
> to ask the dog to get us to something.
>>
>> The next step is to spread food all over a large space on the floor. Use
> something inexpensive like crackers or bread.  You can try other foods
> later. Now walk back and forth with the dog saying leave it at first. Then
> say nothing and walk back and forth. Be ready to give a high level
> correction. Once you can walk through and you can clearly feel the dog
> moving away from the food then the dog has gone into avoidance. Now it will
> be easier to reward the dog for good behavior.
>>
>> Next step would be the same scenario but instead work the dog in harness
> between two targets. Back and forth.  You may feel the dog go off course a
> bit to step around the food but we can accept that because we can turn that
> response down a bit in the real life scenarios.
>>
>> Another alternate set up system is to use flat tipper ware containers.
> The ones that glad makes are good. They are not expensive and are light
> weight. Punch or cut small holes in the containers.  Fill with food  of
> choice. This works well for more desirable morsels.  Do the exercises in
> the
> same way. Work up to taking the lids off.
>>
>> I would suggest practicing at least once or twice a week to be sure you
> have the response.   We are trying to create enough avoidance without
> shutting the dog down.  With that said if you nag the dog or pull the dog
> away it will just create more resistance and actually build drive to get to
> the food.   Anytime you stop to chat with someone put the dog in a down or
> sit. This will let that dog know that you don't need it for anything right
> now and frees you up to talk. Eventually as the dog improves you can have
> the dog be out of a control position. For example just standing or hanging
> near you but not straining on the collar.
>>
>> This part of training must be very clear to the dog or else the poor
> behaviors will continue.  Hope this is useful to folks.
>>
>> Graham
>>
>> Becky Barnes Davidson
>> Manager, Consumer Outreach * Graduate Support Guiding Eyes for the
>> Blind
>> 914-243-2210
>> 800-942-0149 ex. 2210
>> bbarnes at guidingeyes.org
>> www.guidingeyes.org
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Juno-l at lists.screenreview.org
>> http://lists.screenreview.org/listinfo.cgi/juno-l-screenreview.org
>> Juno-l  is A  supportive  communications forum for  Guide Dog  users,
>> and  Puppy Raisers.  Founded and supported by  Guiding Eyes for the Blind
> Graduates.
>
>
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-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16