[nagdu] Woman says cab driver refused her a ride because of seeing-eye dog

Thu Aug 8 14:07:02 UTC 2013

Marion,

Unfortunately, it is not so easy to remember these articulate 
arguments in the moment of crisis.

Sadly, Howard was let down by the NYPD officers in this case, which 
in my experience is atypical.

The good news is that officers have field supervisors and watch 
commanders who they can radio for advice on the law, and as Howard 
was not getting the support from the individual officers at the 
scene, he may have been able to recommend to the officers to check 
with their field supervisor or watch commander for a refresher course 
on the law.

Ben

At 08:40 AM 8/8/2013, you wrote:
>Howard,
>         At the point where one's religion violates the law is the line where
>freedom of religion ends. If one practices a religion that requires human
>sacrifice, polygamy, or drug use, those practices violate the law and are
>not protected. If an individual whose religious practices do not allow
>contact with dogs chooses to engage in employment that requires contact with
>dogs, this person needs to weigh their religious beliefs against the legal
>requirement to transport disabled individuals accompanied by service dogs.
>If they cannot, in good conscious, observe the law and their religious
>practices, they might want to consider a different line of work.
>
>Fraternally yours,
>Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Howard J. Levine
>Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 8:22 AM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Woman says cab driver refused her a ride because of
>seeing-eye dog
>
>I agree with you but I have drivers say that this car is used both for my
>work and my private car and I must pray servial time day and if you bring
>dog in my cab then my god will be up set with me. This is a big problem in
>NYC, how do you answer when driver saids I must pray in my car servial times
>a day.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ann Edie
>Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:47 AM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Woman says cab driver refused her a ride because of
>seeing-eye dog
>
>You are within your rights.  Keep on fighting!
>The driver has a right to his religious beliefs, but not the right to refuse
>a passenger on the basis of his religious beliefs.
>
>Best,
>Ann
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Howard J. Levine
>Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:31 AM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Woman says cab driver refused her a ride because of
>seeing-eye dog
>
>Hi from Howard and rhett, this past Tuesday I was ask to get out of black
>car service when I just jumped into the cab with Rhett and the drive had a
>fit and we called the police driver called the police. The police where no
>help. I am going to take this up chain of command with nypd and the tlc. I
>had called my medical insurance company to have them have car service take
>me to doctor's office. When the cab driver came and I got into cab before he
>could say get that dog out of here, I told driver I am not getting out he
>called the company cab was from and company told him if I did not get out
>call police, I did not get out and I am looking into having a lawer file law
>suit against cab company and file complant with nypd, because cops did help
>me and they felt bad for cab driver, cop said look thay going to get another
>cab for you . I told the officer I have rights and cop told me what about
>his rights his religon does not allow dog in his car. We can't let this crap
>go on.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Humphreys
>Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 9:10 PM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Woman says cab driver refused her a ride because of
>seeing-eye dog
>
>Marion and others,
>
>I feel the discrimination by New York City taxi drivers remains a huge
>problem, especially in a city where taxicabs are a primary form of
>transportation for all.
>
>We get passed up all the time, cabs run away, I've resorted to standing
>around the corner and having someone else get me a cab and open the door, so
>we can then jump in or get the medallion number before he runs away.
>
>Then when you're in the cab, and that driver has a problem, you have to have
>"the talk", which that confrontation pretty much ruins whatever good mood
>you were in, and if you're lucky, driver will listen, but more often no
>amount of logical persuasion will do.  He ether reluctantly agrees and has
>to comment on it for the rest of the ride, or you call the cops, but most of
>the time, I believe you just get passed up on the street and never even know
>it directly.
>
>I wonder how many times NYC taxi drivers have really been taken to task, as
>Mike suggested?
>
>In other cities, like Ft Lauderdale or Phoenix, you can text message your
>address and taxi will come pretty quickly, and record of taxi's # is in the
>reply text message.  So if they leave, you know who your enemy is.
>
>But with NYC, when they pass you up, you never know.  I wonder what the
>solution to this problem is?
>
>Maybe one of those <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomeranian_(dog)>
>
>Pomeranian pocket dogs that you could pop in your purse or backpack?
>
>Ben
>
>
>At 06:04 PM 8/6/2013, you wrote:
> >Dear All,
> >         In most jurisdictions, not only is the driver responsible for
> >the discrimination, the company can also be held responsible. Merry and
> >I fought the cab companies for several years with very little change.
> >After filing several criminal complaints, we filed against the cab
> >company and won. To the best of my knowledge, there has not been an
> >issue since! Take it to the top if you want to reach the bottom!
> >
> >Marion
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sheila
> >Leigland
> >Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 2:52 PM
> >To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] Woman says cab driver refused her a ride because
> >of seeing-eye dog
> >
> >i totally agree with this definetely fight back. We did that with a
> >driver and haven't had any trouble since and it has been at least six
>years.
> >On 8/6/2013 10:43 AM, Michael Hingson wrote:
> > > Make no mistake, it is against the law to refuse to take a blind
> > > person accompanied by a guide dog.  In New York I have taken more
> > > than one cab driver to the authorities because they refused to take
> > > me and
> >Roselle.
> > >
> > > There is no negotiation here.  If a cab driver refuses any of us we
> > > should fight back.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael Hingson
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of rhonda
> > > cruz
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 09:39 AM
> > > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Woman says cab driver refused her a ride
> > > because of seeing-eye dog
> > >
> > >   hi i always take a cab places and i never had that happen.
> > >   or if it did i would call another driver.
> > >   but those are my thoughts,
> > >
> > > On Aug 6, 2013, at 8:38 AM, Rusty Perez wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi folks,
> > >> about 13 years ago when I was in Dallas for a convention, I called
> > >> a cab late one night to drive me to my hotel. I waited for a long time
> > >> and finally discovered that the cab had come  and driven off   when he
> > >> realized I had a dog with me. The second cab which came a while
> > >> later, explained to me that some folks have a religeous objection
> > >> to having dogs in their cabs.
> > >> I was pretty upset, but did nothing about it.
> > >> Rusty
> > >>
> > >> Rusty
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 8/6/13, Ginger Kutsch <GingerKutsch at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >>> Woman says cab driver refused her a ride because of seeing-eye dog
> > >>>
> > >>> By Bob Heye KATU News and KATU.com StaffPublished: Aug 2, 2013
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.katu.com/news/local/Woman-says-cab-driver-refused-her-a
> > >>> -r
> > >>> i
> > >>> de-beca
> > >>> use-of-seeing-eye-dog-218052101.html
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> PORTLAND, Ore. - A woman who is blind says a Broadway Cab driver
> > >>> refused her service because she had a seeing-eye dog with her.
> > >>>
> > >>> It all unfolded at Union Station, and an Amtrak worker confirmed
> > >>> what happened to Deb Marinos.
> > >>>
> > >>> Marinos had gotten off the train and was trying to get to OHSU for
> > >>> a scheduled checkup but a Broadway Cab driver, and then a second
> > >>> cab driver both refused to give her a ride.
> > >>>
> > >>> "I have a little tiny bit of vision," she said. "I'm what's called
> > >>> legally blind, but I have no peripheral vision. So the dog
> > >>> provides me the ability to cross streets and find curbs and doors."
> > >>>
> > >>> Marinos rides Amtrak all the time - commuting to work in Salem and
> > >>> Portland and also traveling the country to conferences and
> > >>> legislative assemblies in her job as a vocational rehabilitation
> > >>> counselor for the Oregon Council of the Blind.
> > >>>
> > >>> She was stunned when she went to get into a Broadway Cab and the
> > >>> driver refused to let her in.
> > >>>
> > >>> "And he says, 'No, she has a dog. I'm not takin' her. No dogs.
> > >>> Dogs aren't allowed by the company.'"
> > >>>
> > >>> A second Broadway driver said he'd take her, but he already had a
> > >>> fare. The next cab back was a Sassy Cab, a subsidiary of Broadway Cab.
> > >>>
> > >>> "The cab behind him, Sassy Cab, says 'No, I don't do dogs either,'"
> > >>> Marinos said. "And then the fourth cab got out to see what all the
> > >>> fun was about and they said, 'OK, we'll take you.'"
> > >>>
> > >>> An Amtrak helper known as Red Cap argued with the cab drivers'
>refusals.
> > >>>
> > >>> "Amtrak is so incredibly good at taking care of us, and the Red
> > >>> Cap today was just absolutely. He was just like all over them and
> > >>> could not believe it
> > >>> - that they'd never had that before where they've had someone
> > >>> turned
> > > down,"
> > >>> Marinos said.
> > >>>
> > >>> And if you think allergies to dogs is behind all this, Marinos
> > >>> said that's not a factor. She's allergic to dogs. Her service dog
> > >>> breed is hypoallergenic.
> > >>>
> > >>> KATU didn't get a response from Broadway Cab Thursday night. City
> > >>> regulations say "No driver shall ... refuse to transport to his
> > >>> requested destination any passenger of proper demeanor who is able
> > >>> to demonstrate the ability to pay the fare."
> > >>>
> > >>> Marinos met both of those requirements.
> > >>>
> > >>> A city spokesperson said the city is starting a formal
> > >>> investigation into the incident and that Broadway Cab is
> > >>> cooperating with
> > > investigators.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> nagdu mailing list
> > >>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >>> for
> > >>> nagdu:
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rustys.lists%40
> > >>> gm
> > >>> a
> > >>> il.com
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> nagdu mailing list
> > >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >> for
> > > nagdu:
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rhondaprincess%4
> > >> 0g
> > >> m
> > >> ail.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nagdu mailing list
> > > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for
> >nagdu:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhin
> > > gs
> > > on.com
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nagdu mailing list
> > > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for
> >nagdu:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sleigland%40bresn
> > > an
> > > .net
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nagdu mailing list
> >nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nagdu:
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.n
> >et
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nagdu mailing list
> >nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nagdu:
> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/brh%40opticinspirati
> >on.org
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/wb2hww%40earthlink.net
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/wb2hww%40earthlink.net
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/brh%40opticinspiration.org