[nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)

Fri Aug 23 13:47:43 UTC 2013

Same here. With the guide work, I definitely stick to all the rules
but the biggest things we've changed is that V is allowed on the bed
and when I give her treats, I tell her "easy" so she knows to take it
slowly. A very good friend clicker trained her pup to find outdoor
trash cans and I did the same thing with my girl. It's unbelieveably
handy, especially on those walks when she has to take a pit stop.

On 8/23/13, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
> So did I. However, I actually haven't really broken them. Just bend them
> some!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shanna Stichler" <slstich at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 1:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)
>
>
>> With my program dogs, I think I stuck to the school rules at first for
>> each one. Once I got to know the dog better, then I deviated from those
>> guidelines when I needed to. I have never used GDB's "over here" command,
>>
>> which is when the dog switches sides in order to go through doors opening
>>
>> toward the team. I found that it just wasn't practical for me, so I came
>> up with a method that sounds pretty similar to what TSE uses, actually. :D
>>
>> I also did clicker work with my dogs, and this was before GDB was using
>> clicker training in their program. Oh, and I always, always switched their
>>
>> food to something I liked better.
>>
>> I think mostly, the schools have all these rules because they want to
>> cover every possible eventuality, if that makes sense. Mostly, they're
>> sound enough, but it's fine to come up with different methods that work
>> better for us when we get home. JMO though, of course.
>>
>> Shanna and Diamond
>> On 8/22/2013 3:26 PM, Shannon Dyer wrote:
>>> This is really sound advice, Tracy. While in class, we are in a controled
>>>
>>> environment. Therefore, the school rules can and do work for us. However,
>>>
>>> once we get home, and our dogs have to function in the environment we're
>>>
>>> used to, things can change.
>>>
>>> Like you, I stopped doing the door thing pretty quickly after coming home
>>>
>>> with each of my dogs. I've also never understood heeling the dog off a
>>> bus. Too much of a chance of injury, IMO.
>>>
>>> Shannon and Ace
>>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I usually change the rules when I get home, if I find the school rules
>>>> aren't working for me.  I say, give the school rules a fair try, because
>>>>
>>>> they may have some real value, but chuck them if they don't work for
>>>> me.
>>>> One example is what I think of as the TSE pirouette, a maneuver for
>>>> opening a door and going through it with the dog.  I gave it a fair try
>>>>
>>>> at the school, but shortly after I got home I went back to the way I'd
>>>> been doing things and totally forgot it.
>>>> Another example is that, many years ago, GDB taught that I should heel
>>>> the dog off of a bus.  I did that, until I stepped into a hole, or
>>>> smashed into a pole right outside the door--I'm sure both these things
>>>> happened--then I decided it was a stupid thing to do and have worked the
>>>>
>>>> dog off the bus ever since.
>>>> IMO, while many of the rules I've been taught in class do have value,
>>>> some others seem to have been made up by people with no practical
>>>> experience in the world I live in, and I will use my good judgement to
>>>> decide which are which.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland"
>>>> <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> hi lyn well stated. I know a handler that goes out of the way to do
>>>>> everything differently than the school trains to do. I do know that
>>>>> some things work better for some dogs than others but the principles
>>>>> are still the same.
>>>>> On 8/21/2013 11:41 AM, L Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Chantel,
>>>>>> I don't think Jenny said that ALL Pilot grads were idiots. LOL! I've
>>>>>> seen my share of poor handlers since 1971!  they came from all
>>>>>> schools.  Part of what I've seen is that grads will sometimes decide
>>>>>> that the school is full of crap when the school asks you to do things
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in a certain way when you get home with a new dog.  the grad blows off
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the school and does things as they please - not realizing that the
>>>>>> school tells you things because they do really know better what has
>>>>>> worked and not worked for grads when they get home.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At TSE, EVERYTHING done has a purpose!  Even the simple things like
>>>>>> going to the dining room for meals.  At lunch time, all the employees
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and guests have lunch with us during the week.  For us students, they
>>>>>>
>>>>>> have us come in after the staff and guests are already eating and they
>>>>>>
>>>>>> are seated near the door in the first section of the dining room.  We
>>>>>>
>>>>>> are required to work our dogs past these tables with people eating at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> them.  This arrangement sets up a situation that we will find when we
>>>>>>
>>>>>> go to restaurants.  Every day, we are practicing how to work the dogs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in a restaurant type setting.  In lecture, our dogs are in harness and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> lying quietly at our feet.  This is like if wwe were at a meeting we
>>>>>> would go to when we get home.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do think some schools are more thorouogh in some things than other
>>>>>> schools.  I see that some other schools do not place a premium on
>>>>>> getting dogs out of the way when we are sitting in a meeting where we
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sit at tables. Some of the dog users just let their dogs lie on the
>>>>>> floor in the way where they get tripped over.  The Seeing Eye is a
>>>>>> real stickler on this issue of making sure our dogs are out of the
>>>>>> way - under chairs or the table where they will not be tripped over.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But many problems are from lax handling by new users AND long-time
>>>>>> handlers because they don't think about what they are doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
>>>>>> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chantel Cuddemi"
>>>>>> <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:59 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am a Pilot grad, and I went through the achievement walk twice, and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had
>>>>>>> to stay for extra training.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, are you saying that all Pilot grads are idiots? Pilot's name is
>>>>>>> engraved
>>>>>>> on Motley's harness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow White
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dove
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:20 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I got Shasta at Pilot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was and am astounded by their training of their dogs and their
>>>>>>> students.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know they have a fowl reputation.  but when I was there, I saw
>>>>>>> why.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There were a couple of women ther that never should've gotten their
>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>> because they didn't have to go through the full achievement walk to
>>>>>>> determine whether they are fit for a dog.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say, politely, but truthfully is, that
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> reputation of Pilot is marred only by the idiots they let go home
>>>>>>> with dogs
>>>>>>> they sshouldn't have giving to people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For any questions on the details of this opinion.  Please email me
>>>>>>> off list
>>>>>>> so as to not clutter the list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just have to say this.  Pilot is, in my opinion, being considered a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>> than desirable school ecause of the idiots that are seen because
>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>> obviously not suited to have a dog and Pilot's name is on that
>>>>>>> harness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No one sees Pilot on the harnesses of those who handle their dogs
>>>>>>> well and
>>>>>>> just blend in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, I'm done gushing over my experiences.  Please don't feel
>>>>>>> offended by
>>>>>>> anything I might have said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I've overstepped my bounds with the moderators.  Please know that
>>>>>>> apologize.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>>> congratulations!
>>>>>>>> What an interesting name..Where did you get Mr Shasta? I don't
>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> what school you apply to. Sorry.
>>>>>>>> May you both have many years of wonderful working relationship
>>>>>>>> together.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:02 PM, Snow White Dove <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wanted to write to tell you all that I finally did it.  I know
>>>>>>> Cynprobably let you guys know already, but I figured I'd write
>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>> I came home August 9th with an English Black lab named Shasta.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He's a wonderful worker and has a great personality, but boy I
>>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> sure of the personality part in the beginning or whether I could
>>>>>>> handle him
>>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>>> If he had not been on leash I think he'd have bounced off the walls
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> on his own steam.
>>>>>>>>> He settled down, and things are pretty cool now, but being 19
>>>>>>>>> months old,
>>>>>>> he's a chewer.  I've had him on leash since I got him, and everything
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> fine till I got home with my brand new leather leash which he chewed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in half
>>>>>>> in a perfectly streight line in two seconds flat.
>>>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was embarrassed to call the school to order a
>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> leash, but more embarrassed when the head trainer answered the phone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>> was cool about it, well for him, and said to give him a couple of
>>>>>>> weeks to
>>>>>>> get more leashes as theyn were out.
>>>>>>>>> I'm hoping they'll just give me a new one, but I don't think I'll
>>>>>>>>> be that
>>>>>>> lucky.
>>>>>>>>> Also, he appears to be a dog, but is a beaver.  He eats anything
>>>>>>>>> wooden
>>>>>>> outside, and I can't seem to break him of it.  I've said no, leash
>>>>>>> corrections, drop it and removed sticks and twigs from his mouth.
>>>>>>> ug.
>>>>>>>>> Hope to hear from you guys soon.  I just did a mass delete before I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>> you all, so if you wrote me about Shasta, please forgive me and send
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jlperdue3%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jawsgirl87%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sleigland%40bresnan.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/slstich%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcreapeau%40gmail.com
>