[nagdu] Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery

Sat Aug 24 19:58:30 UTC 2013

Debbie,

One of the fun things about Portland is that so many places over there 
allow pets by permission, including a lot of the malls, Home Depot and a 
few others. It was handy for when I needed to do some added work on dog 
distractions to be sure my dog was up to snuff for places where pets are 
not allowed. The pets in these places where they are allowed behave 
really well without anyone having to pretend they are service dogs to 
bring them in. When I was re-working stuff with my honest-to-goodness 
service dog because of the after effects of a run in with another 
honest-to-goodness service dog, it was pretty embarrassing having all 
those pets around behaving better than she did. Still, for anyone in the 
Portland area needing to work on indoor dog distractions, there are 
plenty of places to just hang out and do that. /smile/

I'm curious sometimes about a dog that may or may not be a service dog, 
more because I am interested in training and tasks. I generally stop 
myself from asking when I remember that the person is likely to shriek 
cusswords at me. /shudder/ I'll probably blurt something out one of 
these days, and we can share war stories abou that. /lol/

If the behavior of the dog is out of line, I actually don't wonder about 
its status, either... The bad players I've run into over in the same 
stomping grounds are dogs I know to be legally defined service dogs. 
I've met some nasty pets but never in service-dog only places. Certain 
small dog breeds seem to have held a convention and declared Death To 
All Poodles, I can tell you that!

Well, trust Portland to be weird, especially when it comes to dogs. /lol/

Tami

On 08/24/2013 12:08 PM, Debbie Cole wrote:
> Last weekend while doing a 4 hour jaunt with Leone in our local mall
> we ahppened across 2 chiuauas.  One on upper level the 2nd on lower
> level.  Both distractions to Leone.  the first one pops it's tiny head
> out of a Foot Locker store.  Leone herked and did a kissy kissy to the
> little chiuaua.  An older teen female swooped doqn and picked up her
> white mini mutt.  I said "Is that your service dog?"  "How does it
> assist your disability?"  She yelled at me "I'm not F****** disabled!
> Do I look like a retard?  It appeared her boyfriend worked in the
> store.
>
> 2nd dog was jsut walking around on a leash.
>
> It is a habit around here for owners of the very small dogs to freely
> take dogs in shops and stores.
>
> Debbie & Leone
>
> On 8/24/13, Jenine Stanley <jeninems at wowway.com> wrote:
>> Marion,
>>
>> Maybe I'm splitting dog hairs here but the two questions are actually:
>>
>> Is that a service animal?
>> How does it assist you with your disability?
>>
>> The second question assumes that A. the answer to the first question was
>> Yes
>> and B. that the person is disabled. The business cannot ask any questions
>> about a person's disability, even if he or she is disabled. It's implied by
>> the answer to the first question.
>>
>> The business also can't ask for training specifics, just what tasks does
>> the
>> animal do for you that assist.
>>
>> Providing emotional support isn't a task of course. I do hope the
>> restaurant
>> follows up with this one and gets a DOJ comment for the media.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 1:10 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery
>>
>> 	There is a flaw in this article. It states that a business may only
>> ask two questions. A place of public accommodation may inquire about what
>> tasks the animal has been trained to perform and how it was trained, as
>> well
>> as if the person is disabled and if the dog is a service animal.
>>
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
>> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 11:02 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery
>>
>> Hey! This one seemed really clear about the laws and the distinctions.
>> Refreshing. It's good when the quote by the Designated Expert stresses the
>> training, especially when it comes to the different between ESAs and their
>> SD counterparts with task training. I was glad he mentioned that the highly
>> trained service dogs can be removed for the listed misbehaviors.
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 08/24/2013 06:35 AM, Ginger Kutsch wrote:
>>> Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery
>>>
>>> by Jeff Rusack,
>>>
>>> August 23, 2013 8:13 PM
>>>
>>> Source:
>>> http://www.kdlt.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29327&It
>>> emid=5
>>> 7
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One Sioux Falls' family is crying foul after they say they were
>>> discriminated against for having an emotional support dog at a fast
>>> food restaurant, Thursday.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mocha may have brown fur but she seems to be in a grey area.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thursday afternoon when Alan Steele and his mother Edwina decided to
>>> dine in at a Sioux Falls Taco Bell, they were told to do something
>>> that surprised them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "We were asked if we were going to eat in. I said, 'yes, we are.' And
>>> he goes, 'I'm sorry. I can't allow you to do that,'" said Alan Steele.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Americans with Disabilities Act allows any service animal into
>>> just about any business.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "On the back it says that she is a part of the American Disabled Act
>>> of 1990," pointed out Steele.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mocha is titled as an emotional support dog. Mocha's owner, Edwina
>>> Steele suffers from depression and anxiety and can't take
>>> prescriptions due to a heart condition, as they tried to explain to
>>> the
>> Taco Bell staff.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "She is a service animal, emotional support. And he goes, 'that
>>> doesn't matter,'" added Steele.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Just because a dog has a vest on doesn't mean the dog is protected,"
>>> said Steve Slavik, the CEO of Big Paws Canine, a company that trains
>>> dogs for Veterans dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "What a service dog is and how it is defined, is a dog that is trained
>>> to perform work or perform a task for an individual with a
>>> disability," quoted Slavik from the American with Disabilities Act.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And the Steele's may be out of luck when trying to bring Mocha with
>>> them to businesses with pet policies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Dogs that wouldn't be protected are emotional support dogs and
>>> companion dogs. They are still considered pets and they are not
>>> defined in the protection of the ADA," added Slavik.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But, asking someone about their dog, when it comes to determining if
>>> they are indeed a service animal, can be tricky.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Businesses are only allowed to ask two questions when it comes to
>>> service dogs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is the service animal required? And what work has the dog been trained
>>> to perform?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Businesses cannot ask what the owners disability is or for the owner
>>> to provide documentation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "If the dog is barking or being destructive to merchandise or going to
>>> the restroom on the floor, those types of things, even if it's a
>>> full-fledged
>>> 1,000 of hours training service dog, a service dog can be denied access,"
>>> added Slavik.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Steeles say there was no indication of any misbehavior at the Taco
>>> Bell, Thursday and they still hope for an apology from the restaurant.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "I would like for people to ask and understand before they criticize
>>> or discriminate against her," added Steele.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There's no doubt Mocha is a lovable pup. But, service dog experts say
>>> an emotional support dog has no protection when it comes to the
>>> Americans with Disabilities Act.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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