[nagdu] "Consumer"

Darla Rogers djrogers0628 at gmail.com
Fri Jul 12 22:43:03 UTC 2013


What about Patron or participant?
Darla & Handsome Huck


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 2:34 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] "Consumer"

Well, Tracy, methinks you won't buck this trend for a long, long time. It
has come to be entrenched. I don't like it either, but I prefer it to
patient; client works for me, but client isn't general enough. Consumer is
the same as user, though my feeling about it was similar to yours. There
might not be a totally acceptable term for it, but I actually don't mind it
as long as I continue to have a name. Once I was in our library and someone
with whom I was speaking got a call. She said she would get back to them but
she was with a consumer. I did think I would have preferred it if she had
said someone is at my desk.

Cindy Lou

On Jul 12, 2013, at 1:41 PM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net> wrote:

> Hi Marion.
> The NFB may call itself a consumer organization, but I usually call it 
> a civil rights organization.  I do not care for being called a 
> "consumer" in any context.  Somehow, I have been demoted from 
> respected citizen, or even valued customer, to a mere consumer, and I 
> don't like it.  And, when it comes to being called a "guide dog 
> consumer", I can't help picturing myself with a knife and fork, sitting
down to a plate of dog.  Yuk!
> I prefer customer, client, patron, student, graduate, alumna--any of 
> those are preferrable to "consumer" in my book.
> I realize this may go against what has become common usage, but, as I 
> said, I don't like the common usage, and am doing what I can to buck 
> the trend.
> Tracy
> 
>> Tracy,
>> 	I would be open to hearing more about your feelings on the term 
>> "consumer". I have heard people express their views in terms of 
>> consuming
>> (eating) guide dogs; however, that is a limited view of the term. The 
>> NFB refers to itself as a consumer organization in the sense of the 
>> economic definition as "a person or organization that uses a commodity or
service".
>> From an economics point of view, consumerism is the most powerful 
>> method of effecting change and collective consumerism exponentially 
>> increases that power.
>> 	During our annual meeting on July 3, we heard several training 
>> programs assert that the diversity of policies and practices between 
>> thos available offered consumers choice. Of course, for such choice 
>> to be effectively enacted upon, more information needs to be 
>> available. For instance, one training program asserts they transfer 
>> ownership after six months; however, their contract also reserves the 
>> right to repossess the dog at any time and for any reason. I'm not 
>> sure about anyone else, but I do not consider something that someone 
>> else has the right to take away from me without just cause as true 
>> ownership. When publicly asked about this provision during the NAGDU 
>> meeting, we got no response. So much for informed choice! And what 
>> about the practice of surprise visits? I have been advised this same 
>> training program regularly calls consumers to advise them they are 
>> around the corner and want to visit them within five minutes! This 
>> training program may feel as if I am picking on them; however, 
>> playing the victim is not very becoming when they treat blind 
>> consumers in such a manner! Again, more on this in future articles.
>> 
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy 
>> Carcione
>> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 9:36 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quality of Training was pilot dogs traffic 
>> checks
>> 
>> Hi Marion.
>> I'm both a donor and a "consumer".  (Boy, do I hate that term 
>> "consumer"!) I know that my dog enhances my life considerably.  I 
>> think there's a fine line between expressing that truth, and the 
>> "hero dogs leading me out of my lonely darkness", sort of thing.  
>> It's easy for publicity/fundraising to stray over that line, 
>> sometimes.  It annoys me a lot when it does, but I can see how it 
>> could be tricky. I think TSE usually does a pretty good job, by 
>> letting people talk about what the dog does for them, but it's not 
>> perfect.
>> I don't think fundraising would be very effective that said something 
>> like "I can use my dog or my cane to get where I want to go, but my 
>> dog is helpful is some situations." I wonder what you think it should 
>> say?  I know drippy goo when I hear it, but it can't be too blase, 
>> either. I look forward to your articles.
>> Tracy
>> 
>>> Dear All,
>>> 	I believe that, for the most part, all the training programs do a 
>>> good job as it pertains to the quality of training. From my personal 
>>> point of view, the differences I observe are with the philosophies 
>>> of the programs and the resulting manner in which consumers are 
>>> viewed and treated. The purpose of the Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of 
>>> Rights is to outline certain standards the National Association of 
>>> Guide Dog Users and the National Federation of the Blind believe to 
>>> be dignified, respectful  treatment of blind consumers. It gives 
>>> blind consumers considering a training program elements to consider 
>>> when evaluating a training program. Whether a training program 
>>> agrees with the Bill of Rights or not matters less to me than 
>>> affording consumers a tool to measure how a training program measures
up.
>>> 	In a market driven economy, it is best for those who provide goods 
>>> and/or services to listen to their consumers and meet their needs. 
>>> As the collective voice of blind consumers, we believe it is our 
>>> responsibility to inform the public about what we believe is a good 
>>> service by establishing reasonable standards for measuring what 
>>> quality training involves. The Bill of Rights is our operational 
>>> definition of this abstract, subjective term.
>>> As consumers, it is our right to ask training programs how they 
>>> measure up and our responsibility to demand they modify their 
>>> policies, practices, and procedures to align themselves with what we 
>>> believe is dignified treatment.
>>> 	It is my goal over the next year to publish several articles in the 
>>> Braille Monitor and on our Harness Up! Blog on this topic. As we 
>>> shift the paradigm of the blind from beneficiaries to consumers of 
>>> guide dog training programs, those who raise millions of dollars 
>>> from the public on our behalf will either need to realign their 
>>> philosophies or accept the consequences of not doing so.
>>> 	All guide dog training programs have four stakeholders: Consumers, 
>>> volunteers, donors, and employees. Some programs seem to consider 
>>> the most important stakeholder to be the donor. Some of these 
>>> programs solicit donations by telling donors how important their 
>>> work is and, in so many words,  how the plight of the blind is made 
>>> better by their services. Such an approach may serve the training 
>>> program employing this tactic by making the public feel sorry for us 
>>> and give money to improve our plight, but what does it do to us as 
>>> blind people? How does it impact our everyday lives?
>>> Is
>>> it partly responsible for the misconceptions we face from the public 
>>> many of us on this list have complained about? Is it partly 
>>> responsible for our high unemployment rate? Do the ways in which we 
>>> are portrayed by the so-called experts in the field of blindness 
>>> have an impact on our lives? These are the sorts of questions I hope 
>>> to address in the future in the effort to continue shifting the
paradigm.
>>> Your comments are respectfully requested!
>>> 
>>> Fraternally  yours,
>>> 
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> (813) 626-2789 (Office)
>>> 888-NAGDU411 (Hotline
>>> President at nagdu.org
>>> www.nagdu.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle 
>>> Antoine
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 1:03 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training 
>>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>> 
>>> But, could it be that they don't know or can't tell the difference 
>>> because they have never had any other experience? Are there any 
>>> other grads who have gone to Pilot after another program on hear? I 
>>> will say that I've been on a few non-school specific lists and as 
>>> stated previously they all seem happy with there training. this is 
>>> very interesting and I don't really have much info nor have I seen 
>>> any working teams from there so I'd like to hear more about Pilot Dogs.
>>> that's what I've always heard though that they didn't do planned 
>>> traffic checks. Kind of worrisome!
>>> 
>>> Danielle
>>> 
>>> On 7/10/13, rhonda cruz <rhondaprincess at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> hello may, keeps me safe every time we travel together,  she has 
>>>> done many traffic  checks,  and we work hard to.
>>>> i feel pilot did a good job at mamatching us.
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Howard J. Levine wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I agree if a xchool is going to cut back on traffic checks what 
>>>>> else are they cutting back on. You want to know how your guide dog 
>>>>> is going ot react to problem and keep you safe.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:49 PM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: 
>>>>> Training Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rebecca.
>>>>> 	This may be an issue of not knowing rather than not caring. I 
>>>>> believe traffic checks are an important part of guide dog work 
>>>>> and, to the best of my knowledge, Pilot is the only guide dog 
>>>>> training program that does not include them in their training! If 
>>>>> Pilot consumers knew how important they were and that everyone 
>>>>> else gets what they do not, perhaps they would speak up. Then 
>>>>> again, they may be met with the same sort of irrational excuses 
>>>>> other training programs offer us and we are expected to accept without
question!
>>>>> For instance, Pilot may assert that traffic checks are unnecessary 
>>>>> and their consumers are expected to accept this without question. 
>>>>> If they are not important, why does every other program put such a 
>>>>> major emphasis on them?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star 
>>>>> Gazer
>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 12:03 PM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: 
>>>>> Training Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>> 
>>>>> Steve,
>>>>> The Pilot grads don't seem to mind this though. So why would they 
>>>>> speak up?
>>>>> To them, it isn't a problem. To me, it's a deal breaker.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven 
>>>>> Johnson
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:07 PM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: 
>>>>> Training Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>> 
>>>>> Deanna, you make an excellent point.  Having a controlled traffic 
>>>>> check can help the student get prepared for what is inevitable.
>>>>> Whether it is a gas powered car, quiet car, bicycle, skateboard; 
>>>>> we can begin to learn and feel how our dogs react to those situations.
>>>>> Sometimes they are slight, and sometimes, very apparent checks as 
>>>>> we all know.  What would be ideal is for the Pilot grads to step 
>>>>> up and simply make this request.  The more they hear from, the 
>>>>> more likely they might listen, and a potential change could be made.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna 
>>>>> Lewis
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:43 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>> Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: 
>>>>> Training Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am sorry, but I would rather have a trained professional driving 
>>>>> a car and testing my dog and I, than I would to have a random 
>>>>> stranger who is not paying attention come close to, or actually
hitting us.
>>>>> Drivers nowadays are so careless and they are always on their cell 
>>>>> phones, texting, putting on makeup, and so forth. They just do not 
>>>>> pay attention to pedestrians.
>>>>> I strongly believe that planned traffic checks are an essential 
>>>>> part of guide dog training.
>>>>> Deanna and Pascal
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla 
>>>>> Rogers
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 11:30 AM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: 
>>>>> Training Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Chantel,
>>>>> 
>>>>> That is totally ridiculous; I wouldn't want a dog who freaked out 
>>>>> with artificial traffic checks.
>>>>> Darla & Handsome Huck
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel 
>>>>> Cuddemi
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 11:39 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>> Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: 
>>>>> Training Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>> 
>>>>> Guys,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Students and dogs were freaked out by the artificial traffic 
>>>>> checks set up by Pilot. I wasn't aware that the dogs go through 
>>>>> artificial traffic checks before we got them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 7/2/13, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> That I didn't know! I just know that between Holly and I we don't 
>>>>>> have any probblems! She'll stop whebn cars are coming and go 
>>>>>> around those that park in the middle of the street.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Snow White Dove" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 6:19 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: 
>>>>>> Training Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Ava,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Pilot dogs does traffic checks while the dogs are in their 
>>>>>>> training period
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> with the trainers, before they get to you.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You're right though, there are plenty of opportunities for the 
>>>>>>> dog to show
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> you it'll stop for traffic during your training itself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2013, at 3:16 AM, avapup.7 at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've heard this before, that pilot dogs doesn't do traffic checks.
>>>>>>>> As I am considering this program for after my Cocoa girl 
>>>>>>>> retires I'm wondering
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> if it's maybe a difference in terminology? I mean, their dogs 
>>>>>>>> are trained
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> to stop if a car approaches, right? Like, intelligent disobedience?
>>>>>>>> But is it that pilot dogs doesn't set up artificial situations 
>>>>>>>> for their students where they have a car driven by a staff 
>>>>>>>> member to test them? I'd
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> think that in Columbus there would be plenty of real life 
>>>>>>>> traffic checks
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> without setting them up like other schools do! Ugh, Columbus 
>>>>>>>> traffic! Do
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have it right or am I thinking of something different? Thanks!!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ava and Cocoa
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 1:24 PM, rhonda cruz 
>>>>>>>> <rhondaprincess at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> the staff at pilot are good.
>>>>>>>>> maybe if we got more grads from pilot they would change there 
>>>>>>>>> minds, about going to a nfb convention, but i will never know, 
>>>>>>>>> if i just ask.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Star Gazer wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like the trainer at Pilot wasn't briefed properly 
>>>>>>>>>> before giving
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>> presentation.
>>>>>>>>>> Agree with Marsha, the folks in charge at Pilot could have 
>>>>>>>>>> calmed her down and used it as a learning opportunity.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>>>>>> Marsha Drenth
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Update: Training Programs at NAGDU 
>>>>>>>>>> Meeting
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> marion,
>>>>>>>>>> When did this happen? I am assuming before you took the 
>>>>>>>>>> presidency.
>>>>>>>>>> Althought there has been those members around since those 
>>>>>>>>>> time,, before
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> took the presidency, the NAGDU is certainly different from 
>>>>>>>>>> those times
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>>> its unfortunate that Pilot feels that way, that they feel 
>>>>>>>>>> they can not participate. I wonder if its graduates urged 
>>>>>>>>>> them to do so, if they would. I do feel like that is a cop-out.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "National Association of Guide 
>>>>>>>>>> Dog Users"
>>>>>>>>>> <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Rhonda,
>>>>>>>>>>> Pilot has not been to an NFB convention since I have been an 
>>>>>>>>>>> officer. When I spoke with Jay Gray to invite him, he said 
>>>>>>>>>>> Pilot would
>>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>>> attend another convention because it was his opinion one of 
>>>>>>>>>>> his trainers
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed at a meeting. I don't remember the incident, but 
>>>>>>>>>>> he said the trainer was asked about traffic checks and she 
>>>>>>>>>>> said Pilot did not do
>>>>>>>>>> traffic
>>>>>>>>>>> checks. Apparently, the president at the time was very 
>>>>>>>>>>> surprised and exclaimed, "You don't do traffic checks?"
>>>>>>>>>>> According to someone else that
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> there, this is how it happened and a rather strong 
>>>>>>>>>>> discussion of the importance of traffic checks followed. I 
>>>>>>>>>>> told Mr. Gray that I felt it
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable question and couldn't imagine not doing traffic 
>>>>>>>>>>> checks while assuring him that, in spite of the fact that 
>>>>>>>>>>> our members can be very assertive, I would never allow 
>>>>>>>>>>> anyone to insult another nor treat anyone with disrespect or 
>>>>>>>>>>> in an undignified manner. Pilot has still not chosen to 
>>>>>>>>>>> attend our conventions, though!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>> 
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