[nagdu] self identification

Sun Nov 24 02:06:56 UTC 2013

Hi,

I have seen nearly 100 pounds learn to go under non-bulkhead seats. 

Best,

Michael Hingson

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dyer
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 05:30 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification

Hi, Michael.

I've always had small dogs. My biggest was 21 inches tall, but I know of
dogs who are much larger. My partner, for example, has a lab who measures 26
inches, and is quite long. Do you know if large dogs can fit under the seat
in front? I can see smaller dogs doing it, but I'm not sure about larger
dogs.

Shannon and the Acelet
On Nov 23, 2013, at 5:22 PM, "Michael Hingson" <Mike at michaelhingson.com>
wrote:

> Mike,
> 
> Thanks for the email.  Good question.  What happens if you are caught 
> in severe turbulents?  This year alone I know of three flights where 
> passengers were injured due to turbulent conditions during the flights 
> including take-offs and landings.  Since dogs do not wear seatbelts 
> there is nothing to prevent a dog lying in a bulkhead row from 
> bouncing about in severe turbulents.  The airlines are all about 
> safety, so they say.  Well then let's talk safety for guide dogs.  
> There is nothing restraining a guide dog in a bulkhead row.  Also, the 
> dog may often lye across more than one seat's legroom.
> 
> In a non-bulkhead seat the dog can be positioned under the seat in 
> front with its head between its owner's feet.  In this position the 
> dog is comfortable, and it is secure and restrained in case of 
> emergencies.  By any standard the handler has much more control over 
> the dog in a non-bulkhead seat.  Even if there is an emergency and the 
> dog panics the handler has much more control when the dog is under a 
> seat than can be attained when the dog is in a bulkhead seat and thus can
help keep the dog calmer.
> 
> I hope this helps. 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Michael Hingson
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 02:10 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification
> 
> Hey Michael,
> 
> I'm curious as to why you say the bulkhead seats are not safe. I 
> travel all the time and have been in just about every seat with my guy 
> dog but I've never had any issues so I'm curious about what you're basing
this off of.
> 
> Thanks and have a good day.
> 
> Mike Malarsie
> www.malarsie.com
> 
>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 3:25 PM, "Michael Hingson" 
>> <Mike at michaelhingson.com>
> wrote:
>> 
>> Fear not.  They will hear about this. 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Hingson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine 
>> Stanley
>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 12:22 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification
>> 
>> And I'd hope, Michael, that if you don't file a complaint under the 
>> ACAA against US Air for what they stated to you about their policy, 
>> which is illegal under said ACAA, then they'll just keep doing it, 
>> whether you self identify at the ticket ordering stage or at the airport.
>> 
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael 
>> Hingson
>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 2:27 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification
>> 
>> Genine,
>> 
>> While I understand your reasoning for self identification, the fact 
>> is that the airlines make up the rules as they go, and they are good 
>> at intimidating people who may not be strong enough to resist their 
>> extreme lack of sensitivity, knowledge of the law, and common sense.
>> For these reasons I usually do not identify in advance.  Here is a 
>> case in
> point.
>> 
>> Last Saturday I made a reservation on US Air.  (I usually use 
>> American as I am executive Platinum on AA and can get most places 
>> with them.) However, because AA didn't fly where I needed to go I 
>> chose to fly US Air as it was the best choice for my needs for a
particular flight.
>> Given the experience Al Rizzi had and because I wanted to get the 
>> full experience of how US Air would treat me I decided to try an 
>> experiment and identify that I was traveling with a guide dog.  
>> Usually I do not so identify as I can simply request in advance the 
>> seat I want and get it.  (I refuse to fly in the bulkhead as it is 
>> unsafe and so that is not
> an issue.).
>> 
>> Anyway, immediately upon identifying the existence of my guide dog I 
>> was told that US Air's policy was that I would be required to sit in 
>> the bulkhead row.  I simply flat out said "no" and that I would be 
>> sitting elsewhere.
>> 
>> After being put on hold for five minutes the agent came back to 
>> inform me that she, with her supervisor's permission, put me in a 
>> non-bulkhead seat, but that I might be changed back to the bulkhead 
>> at the airport.  The agent switched my seat even though she had said 
>> that US Air's policy was that I had to sit in the bulkhead row?  
>> Really?  So
> much for a "policy".
>> 
>> I have no specific knowledge of the US Air policy, but I will learn it.
>> However, it doesn't matter.  The ACAA does not require me to sit in 
>> the bulkhead nor even by a window.  Many blind passengers do not have 
>> my level of experience and may not fight as hard.
>> 
>> I realize that at the airport people may also have the same fight to
> fight.
>> Even so, the fight is less likely if the airline has less time to 
>> make up rules or become entrenched in a position.  If you think it is 
>> bad for blind people with guide dogs I submit that people in 
>> wheelchairs often have even more difficult times.  I have seen this 
>> happen with my wife, Karen, almost every time we fly.
>> 
>> Finally, self identification should not be necessary as we should not 
>> have to be singled out as a class.  If you really can make a case for 
>> needing to identify yourself and your guide in advance to get a 
>> specific seat, and if that works for you, then so be it.  If, for 
>> example, you feel that you need the bulkhead then I can understand 
>> advance notice being given to the airlines as that will be the only 
>> way you get that seat.  I would say again, however, that bulkhead 
>> seats are arguably unsafe for guide dogs.  As a result, Since most 
>> guide dogs will fit under non-bulkhead seats advanced self 
>> identification is unnecessary and can only lead to more fights and
> difficulties just as with taxis.
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Hingson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine 
>> Stanley
>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 07:46 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: [nagdu] self identification
>> 
>> Marion,
>> 
>> I agree with you in most cases. Self identification just is not 
>> necessary as someone working with any type of assistance dog.
>> 
>> Air travel though is a bit different in a couple ways. I do self 
>> identify there because:
>> 
>> 1. It's a very restricted environment. It's not like another plane 
>> will just pull up to take you where you want to go.
>> 2. I want to pre-board for very specific reasons, to get the seat I 
>> want, which I'm pretty proactive about, and to get all dog-related 
>> issues settled ASAP so I can plug in and tune out. :) 3. But most 
>> importantly, under the Air Carrier Access Act, if I want a specific 
>> seat or type of seat as an accommodation for dog, I have to self 
>> identify, at least 48 hours before the flight.
>> 
>> So there ya go. 
>> 
>> Do I do this with taxi cabs, restaurants, stores, etc.? Absolutely not. 
>> 
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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