[nagdu] self identification

Michael Hingson Mike at michaelhingson.com
Mon Nov 25 02:25:31 UTC 2013 

Shannon,

You are correct.  It is your choice and I will defend your right to choose.

My only comment about the bulkhead is that although you have had good
experiences there it only takes one time where turbulents are severe to
injure your guide dog or even you.  Even so, it is your choice and all I ask
is that you think about what other experienced travelers discuss.

If I have no other seat in which to sit I too will take the bulkhead over
not flying at all.  However I will take some precautions such as locking
Africa's leash into my seatbelt even though some airline personnel say not
to do this.  It is all about the odds. 


Best,


Michael Hingson

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dyer
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 05:43 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification

Personally, I think this whole matter of self-identification is a personal
choice. I, too, let the airline know ahead of time that I will be traveling
with a guide dog. I also let them know that I will need assistance to
baggage claim. I know many choose not to do these things, and that's fine.
Everyone is free to make their own choices. Even if I disagree with a choice
someone else makes, I don't think I have the right to pressure them into
changing it. I cannot make some give advance notice, just as others cannot
make me stop.

As for the bulkhead, I do use it, and it has worked well for me. I know
people feel it's unsafe, but I've never had a bad experience there. Might I
in the future? I suppose it's as likely as anything else.

Shannon and the Acelet
On Nov 24, 2013, at 8:07 PM, "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com> wrote:

> Marion, it's not exactly a rhetorical question. 
> 
> If you want an accommodation under the ACAA, then you do have to self 
> identify. If you don't, then you don't. Very simple.
> 
> I want the flexibility to ask for a different seat than the one either 
> they assign me or change me to and so I do self identify. My choice, 
> not my edict for all.
> 
> It's just like Michael noted with frequent travelers tending not to 
> want bulkhead seating at all, because we know the risks and have 
> experienced some of the issues with being placed there. Yet, others 
> choose these seats, for their own reasons.
> 
> I'm glad NAGDU is helping to educate the airline industry. We all need 
> to do so by not only reporting bad behavior but rewarding good 
> behavior with things like positive comments if we had a good 
> experience or got something worked out reasonably.
> 
> 
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National 
> Association of Guide Dog Users
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:20 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification
> 
> Jenine,
> 	Does the ACAA require blind or otherwise disabled people to give 
> advance notice? Since this is a rhetorical question, how does this 
> fulfill any legal responsibility? I think the better approach is to 
> help educate our peers and the airline industry. NAGDU is working on 
> doing this very diligently and Albert's experience will be a good 
> example to the industry as to why it would be good to work with us!
> 
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine 
> Stanley
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 11:03 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification
> 
> OK Marion, here's my reasoning. 
> 
> Granted, the airlines seem indeed to make it up as they go along in 
> terms of seating.  However, if we do have adverse situations like what 
> happened to Al Rizzi and we have to deal with completely unreasonable 
> crew members, it's just my belief that we should have all of our legal
ducks in a row.
> 
> Hey Airline staff, I self identified. I asked to pre-board. I asked 
> for a specific seat with a specific reason for that request. It's not 
> like I just showed up and you had no idea what to do. I, unlike you, 
> followed the regulations set forth in the Air Carriers Access Act.
> 
> Sadly these days it's all about CYA. 
> 
> Now, if you don't care about what seat you have and are fine with the 
> seat assigned, then no, there's no need to self identify as you don't 
> need to do that for pre-boarding, until you are literally at the gate that
is.
> 
> I look at this whole thing as one of those situations in which we are 
> eventually, through the formal complaint processes, going to hammer 
> the actual rules into people. I fear I'm way, way, way too optimistic. 
> :) Jenine Stanley jeninems at wowway.com http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National 
> Association of Guide Dog Users
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 6:01 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification
> 
> Jenine,
> 	I agree with #3, if one needs a certain seat; however, I'm not sure 
> how either the restricted environment or the desire to pre-board would 
> require advance notification. Merry and I generally pre-board for the 
> same reasons you state and neither of us have ever given advance
notification.
> Maybe you can share a little more about this.
> 
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine 
> Stanley
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:46 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: [nagdu] self identification
> 
> Marion,
> 
> I agree with you in most cases. Self identification just is not 
> necessary as someone working with any type of assistance dog.
> 
> Air travel though is a bit different in a couple ways. I do self 
> identify there because:
> 
> 1. It's a very restricted environment. It's not like another plane 
> will just pull up to take you where you want to go.
> 2. I want to pre-board for very specific reasons, to get the seat I 
> want, which I'm pretty proactive about, and to get all dog-related 
> issues settled ASAP so I can plug in and tune out. :) 3. But most 
> importantly, under the Air Carrier Access Act, if I want a specific 
> seat or type of seat as an accommodation for dog, I have to self 
> identify, at least 48 hours before the flight.
> 
> So there ya go. 
> 
> Do I do this with taxi cabs, restaurants, stores, etc.? Absolutely not. 
> 
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
> 
> 
> 
> 
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