[nagdu] Why Labradors?

Tue Sep 17 19:37:00 UTC 2013

Just use a verbal or leash correction when the dog licks. Sometimes I
find it difficult to do that though because you might not catch them
licking somebody in time to correct.

On 9/17/13, Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net> wrote:
> hi eve I haven't figured out how to curb licking in my sweet golden.
> Other than that I love him to death.
> On 9/17/2013 11:25 AM, I. C. Bray wrote:
>> Tami,
>>
>> I always look forward to your posts!!
>>
>> I don't like hair either, but I like poodles even less... No offense!!
>> Smart dog, yes... yes... I know!  Too smart if you ask me.  There is one
>> around here who is NOT well behaved and his Trainer won't make it behave.
>>
>> I like all the Yellow Labs I've met.
>> I don't particularly care for goldens ... again hair, but also the
>> licking... and licking... and licking.. and licking... and licking... oh,
>> did I mention the licking?
>>
>> Does anyone have any advice to curtail that behavior?
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tami Jarvis" <tami at poodlemutt.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>>
>>
>> : Raven,
>> :
>> : For some reason, I've preferred "something other than lab" as a guide.
>> : Don't know why, since I like labs. I guess there are other breeds I
>> like
>> : better. But I've come to the conclusion that when/if I go through a
>> : program, I will no doubt be thrilled with a lab if that's what they
>> : match me with.
>> :
>> : It seems like another plus with labs in the business sense is that
>> there
>> : is a fair amount of variety in their temperaments, so more available
>> : matches per litter. There are speedy, energetic labs and mellow,
>> : laid-back labs. So apparently, they are less one-size-fits-all.
>> :
>> : Then there are poodles... /lol/ I had viewed labs as super hyper and
>> : goofy and was shocked to learn they were being used as guides. Then I
>> : observed a couple in harness and realized they were great. It does make
>> : sense, since they are hunting -- working -- dogs from before they
>> became
>> : the designated pet breed. Then I got a poodle, so I now see labs as
>> : mellow and serious, even the pet lab pups doing their labby thing at
>> hte
>> : park. Lab owners see me as just plain nuts when I mention it must be
>> : nice to have such a placid puppy... Until I explain that I have a
>> : poodle. Oh. /lol/
>> :
>> : I've known some hyper goofy pet goldens, too, but they seem to make
>> : really great guides. For now, I'm still debating the poodle vs. dobie
>> : choice for my next, and I still have my lifelong shepherd yen. Except
>> : for the shedding there. Poodle has me and my spouse spoiled. So it's
>> : down to poodle vs. dobie.
>> :
>> : Tami
>> :
>> :
>> : On 09/17/2013 07:49 AM, Raven Tolliver wrote:
>> : > Hi Tracy,
>> : > That's promising. I suppose it wouldn't kill to try out a lab,
>> several
>> : > years from now, when I'm applying for the next dog, if that's what I
>> : > choose to do. I mean, I would still shoot for a golden, but if I
>> ended
>> : > up with a well-behaved, low energy, calm, gentle labrador, I would
>> : > stick with it to really experience the difference between the two
>> : > breeds.
>> : >
>> : > On 9/17/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>> : >> Hi Raven.  You'd need a lab like my Benny, then.  He's extremely
>> quiet.
>> I
>> : >> say he has a stuffed animal switch.  He lies down, flips the switch,
>> and
>> : >> turns himself into a stuffed animal.  He only dances around for a
>> few
>> : >> minutes a day.  I've never met another dog like him.
>> : >> Tracy
>> : >>
>> : >>
>> : >> ----- Original Message -----
>> : >> From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
>> : >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> : >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> : >> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:18 PM
>> : >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>> : >>
>> : >>
>> : >>> Yeah, I think the puppy-like behavior is what bothers me. If I
>> wanted
>> : >>> a puppy, I would get one. That insane behavior and getting into
>> things
>> : >>> is exactly what I'm referring to when I say they are high-strung,
>> : >>> goofy,and quirky. The running in circles, barking or
>> growling--that's
>> : >>> a little nuts. Going after everything on the floor, or jumping up
>> to
>> : >>> grab things that are on counters or high up--that's a nuisance.
>> : >>> I just don't think a labrador would ever be for me. I prefer a more
>> : >>> laid-back, mature, and well-mannered golden. I like a dog that's
>> : >>> perfectly fine with working all day from 9 to 9, but also okay with
>> : >>> sitting around the apartment all day with a couple play sessions
>> : >>> thrown in. I just don't need a dog with high energy requirements.
>> : >>> There's other reasons why I wouldn't get a lab, but the ones above
>> are
>> : >>> big contributing factors.
>> : >>>
>> : >>>
>> : >>> On 9/16/13, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> : >>>> Hi Debbie,
>> : >>>> Leone sounds really cute, though I haven't always experienced,
>> with
>> : >>>> my labs, the puppyish behavior until 5.  Huck still has some, but
>> he
>> : >>>> never
>> : >>>> bothers anything in the house though he is much happier working
>> and
>> : >>>> going
>> : >>>> places.
>> : >>>> The puppy part, if it isn't destructive, is one of the things I
>> love
>> : >>>> about labs; they enjoy life!!!!  They usually enjoy their work,
>> too,
>> and
>> : >>>> they are seldom in a bad mood.
>> : >>>> Darla & HANDSOME Huck
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> : >>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debbie
>> Cole
>> : >>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 5:43 PM
>> : >>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> : >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> Labradores... they always have the minds and hearts of a puppy.
>> they
>> : >>>> just
>> : >>>> never seem to grow up.  We need to baby proof our house.  No socks
>> or
>> : >>>> objects left where she can get to them.  Coffee Tables must be
>> cleaned.
>> : >>>> Remote controls up high.
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> My Leone she gets this playful behavior mostly in the evenings
>> after
>> her
>> : >>>> 2nd
>> : >>>> to last walk.  (we're in an apartment with no yard) If i'm at the
>> : >>>> computer
>> : >>>> she will look at me from 5 feet away then start barking and
>> running
>> : >>>> around
>> : >>>> the living room.  this means let's play.  she's 5.
>> : >>>> Still a puppy.  So I get her bone or a tug toy and i play tug with
>> her
>> : >>>> or
>> : >>>> throw her kongs.  Until she's tired.
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> Once a Lab always a puppy.
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> Debbie & Leone
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
>> : >>>>> My Bianca has had horrible house behavior, but I attribute that
>> to
>> her
>> : >>>>> intelligence. Her mind was always looking for something to do. I
>> : >>>>> learned dog proofing to a level I'd never needed before. Now
>> she's
>> : >>>>> nearly thirteen, she can't physically get into the mischief she
>> used
>> : >>>>> to do. But since nobody, dog or human is perfect, I accept the
>> : >>>>> negative side of their personalities. On the other hand, Olga, my
>> : >>>>> current working dog, would no more get into trouble in the house
>> than
>> : >>>>> I would jump off a bridge! But though she's smart and a solid
>> steady
>> : >>>>> worker, she doesn't have that edge and absolute brilliance Bianca
>> has.
>> : >>>>> But she is the dog I need for my life as it is now. I work from
>> home
>> : >>>>> now, and when Bianca was working, she'd have gone crazy with that
>> kind
>> : >>>>> of schedule.
>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> : >>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>> : >>>>> Tolliver
>> : >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:58 AM
>> : >>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> : >>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>> I meant to put more of a focus on a lab's quirkiness than their
>> : >>>>> goofiness. I've definitely trained labradors that didn't goof off
>> : >>>>> during the session unless there was a toy involved, of course.
>> : >>>>> by work ethic, I guess I'm referring to the dog's concentration
>> on
>> and
>> : >>>>> sincerity during work. I hear too many stories about labs being
>> : >>>>> stubborn in harness about sniffing, scavenging, and snatching up
>> : >>>>> people's food, being far too high-strung, getting easily excited
>> and
>> : >>>>> wild about little things, and having inappropriate house manners
>> when
>> : >>>>> out of harness. It's very possible that this is the case because
>> there
>> : >>>>> are more labs in the field than any other breed. Also, I know
>> that
>> : >>>>> dogs are creatures of opportunity and it rests more on the
>> handler
>> to
>> : >>>>> maintain consistent control of their  dog than it rests on the
>> dog
>> to
>> : >>>>> restrain itself. despite having a lax handler. It may be true as
>> well
>> : >>>>> that some of these behaviors are prominent because schools are
>> giving
>> : >>>>> out adolescent dogs, and the inappropriate behaviors probably
>> fade
>> : >>>>> with age.
>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
>> : >>>>>> I have to agree. My labs aren't goofy in their work, and I like
>> the
>> : >>>>>> silly side in their off work hours. My retired Bianca, a black
>> lab,
>> : >>>>>> I'd
>> : >>>>> challenge
>> : >>>>>> against any breed with a stronger work ethic. I have pretty
>> : >>>>>> specialized needs in my guide. I need a dog that is 100 percent
>> easy
>> : >>>>>> to manage, but at the same time, the dog has to be smart with
>> great
>> : >>>>>> initiative. I can fall over a tiny crack in a sidewalk, for
>> instance.
>> : >>>>>> And I must be a route traveler, because the longer I am on my
>> feet,
>> : >>>>>> the more pain and time for recovering I might have to have. So,
>> I
>> : >>>>>> need my dogs to be smart, to learn what I need to have done,
>> where
>> to
>> : >>>>>> be cautious, to be able to walk at a slow pace without getting
>> : >>>>>> distracted and not to have the sort of initiative
>> : >>>>> that
>> : >>>>>> makes them want to explore a little. During training, Bianca
>> picked
>> : >>>>>> up everything I needed. She'd slow or even stop at dips for
>> driveways
>> : >>>>>> on a sidewalk, or hesitate at the top of a wheel chair ramp as
>> we
>> : >>>>>> approached a corner. She instinctively seemed to know what could
>> trip
>> : >>>>>> me up and she'd look for the smoothest part of the area. She
>> would
>> : >>>>>> remember a place we'd been to after one visit. When I worked at
>> GDB,
>> : >>>>>> I had a nightmarish
>> : >>>>> crossing
>> : >>>>>> on my way to work, the sort of crossing I dread and avoid at all
>> : >>>>>> costs.
>> : >>>>>> There was no way to avoid it, and Bianca got me through it
>> : >>>>>> confidently, wagging her tail. I heard lots of people say labs
>> and
>> : >>>>>> goldens don't have a strong work ethic and I think that's as
>> wrong
>> as
>> : >>>>>> someone else saying all shepherds are too hyper or can't handle
>> : >>>>>> stressful work, or any of the
>> : >>>>> other
>> : >>>>>> generalizations people make about breeds. There are good dogs
>> and
>> not
>> : >>>>> great
>> : >>>>>> dogs in all breeds, and not all individual dogs make great
>> guides.
>> : >>>>>> I've seen guides from breeds I wouldn't have expected that were
>> : >>>>>> amazing, and I've seen horrible labs. I've had labs that didn't
>> work
>> : >>>>>> out who weren't made to be guides. I've only ever worked labs
>> and
>> : >>>>>> goldens, and I'd give a lot to have another golden, but the
>> reasons
>> I
>> : >>>>>> say that would probably have my golden from 15 years ago career
>> : >>>>>> changed now. She was very much a one-person dog who took a long
>> time
>> : >>>>>> to turn over to her trainer and then to me and had severe
>> separation
>> : >>>>>> anxiety. In the world of cookie cutter training and dogs, I
>> don't
>> : >>>>>> think they'd give her the time she needed today. But man, was
>> she
>> : >>>>>> ever one devoted and bonded dog. She have worked across the
>> fires
>> of
>> : >>>>>> hell for me if I'd asked her to. And yet, most people think
>> goldens
>> : >>>>>> are silly. So it all comes down to that I think labs are
>> predominant
>> : >>>>>> because they adjust well
>> : >>>>> to
>> : >>>>>> the changes in their lives, they are healthy, intelligent and
>> : >>>>>> friendly. A dog that can work and live in most any environment.
>> : >>>>>>
>> : >>>>>> Sherry
>> : >>>>>>
>> : >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> : >>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>> : >>>>>> Carcione
>> : >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 10:27 AM
>> : >>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> : >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>> : >>>>>>
>> : >>>>>> I hear people talk about labrador goofiness, but none of my 5
>> labs
>> : >>>>>> have been what I'd call goofy, certainly not in harness.  Some
>> have
>> : >>>>>> been quite playful out of harness, but very serious as soon as
>> the
>> : >>>> harness went on.
>> : >>>>>> And, as for work ethic, they don't have the intensity of a
>> shepherd,
>> : >>>>>> but they do take their work seriously.
>> : >>>>>> I guess I'm not real clear on what you mean by "work ethic".
>> : >>>>>> Tracy
>> : >>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>> Hi,
>> : >>>>>>> I never thought about the adjustment to a kennel environment as
>> a
>> : >>>>>>> contributing factor toward what breed dominates the field, but
>> it
>> : >>>>>>> makes sense. Also, coat and health maintenance seem like
>> sensible
>> : >>>>>>> reasons on the surface. Obviously, we want healthy dogs, but
>> : >>>>>>> personally, I would look for a more serious work ethic and less
>> : >>>>>>> quirkiness and goofiness in a guide dog.
>> : >>>>>>> I just thought it would be an interesting question since there
>> are
>> : >>>>>>> two US guide dog schools that only train German shepherds as
>> guide
>> : >>>>>>> dogs, and now there is a school in the south that trains
>> several
>> : >>>>>>> breeds for guide work, none of which are labradors.
>> : >>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>> On 9/16/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>> : >>>>>>>> I think labradors have many excellent guide dog qualities, and
>> that
>> : >>>>>>>> is why they're so dominant in the field.
>> : >>>>>>>> They're intelligent, but don't have to second-guess every
>> single
>> : >>>>>>>> thing their partner asks them to do.
>> : >>>>>>>> They're adaptable to a wide variety of environments and a wide
>> : >>>>>>>> variety of handlers.  Labs can work well with everything from
>> the
>> : >>>>>>>> busy college student to the elderly person who may not get out
>> : >>>>>>>> every single day.
>> : >>>>>>>> They have an easy-care coat, which does not go through big
>> shedding
>> : >>>>>>>> periods, and doesn't tend to get matted.
>> : >>>>>>>> They are generally healthy--not particularly prone to
>> allergies,
>> : >>>>>>>> digestive complaints, or other medical issues.
>> : >>>>>>>> These two things make them easy keepers, even for
>> inexperienced
>> dog
>> : >>>>>>>> people.
>> : >>>>>>>> They tend to be even-tempered, not prone to snappiness or
>> timidity.
>> : >>>>>>>>  From what I hear, they are less likely to be upset by a
>> kennel
>> : >>>>>>>> environment, which is helpful to the big schools.
>> : >>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>> I've had 6 dogs, and 5 have been labs.  Shepherds are very
>> : >>>>>>>> handsome, but the one I had was pretty high-maintenance.  I'd
>> be
>> : >>>>>>>> open to a different breed next time, but I won't be the least
>> upset
>> : >>>>>>>> if I get another lab.
>> : >>>>>>>> I
>> : >>>>>>>> think they're one of the finest breeds around.
>> : >>>>>>>> Tracy
>> : >>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>> There are certainly other breeds besides labs that make good
>> guide
>> : >>>>>>>>> dogs and other types of service dogs, but I have also seen
>> certain
>> : >>>>>>>>> breeds, such as collies, which, JMHO, should not be service
>> dogs.
>> : >>>>>>>>> Some breeds are smart, but do not have the want-to-please
>> : >>>>>>>>> mentality  found in some of the breeds more commonly used for
>> : >>>>>>>>> guide dogs.
>> : >>>>>>>>> As for goldens, I think that they may be a little more laid
>> back
>> : >>>>>>>>> than labs.
>> : >>>>>>>>> I do not know if German Shepherds are more sensative to
>> : >>>>>>>>> corrections, but I do know that they are more likely to not
>> eat
>> or
>> : >>>>>>>>> get slightly sick when adjusting to change or in stressful
>> : >>>>>>>>> situations, such as traveling.
>> : >>>>>>>>> Also,
>> : >>>>>>>>> they are more likely to have medical or aggression problems,
>> which
>> : >>>>>>>>> is partiallywhy, sadly, GDB no longer trains German
>> Shepherds.
>> : >>>>>>>>> I have not interacted much with dobermen pinchers, but, from
>> what
>> : >>>>>>>>> other people have said, I'm not quite sure why they are not
>> used
>> : >>>>>>>>> more. I guess that, once schools find breeds that work, they
>> are
>> : >>>>>>>>> less likely to try something new.
>> : >>>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>> Nicole
>> : >>>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> : >>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Raven
>> : >>>>>>>>> Tolliver
>> : >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:22 AM
>> : >>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> : >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>> : >>>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>> Hi,
>> : >>>>>>>>> I am wondering why the majority of dogs trained in most guide
>> dog
>> : >>>>>>>>> programs are labrador retrievers. What is it about that breed
>> that
>> : >>>>>>>>> makes them dominate in the guide dog field?
>> : >>>>>>>>> I notice that in other service dog areas, this breed is not
>> used
>> : >>>>>>>>> as often.
>> : >>>>>>>>> And when people train their own guide dogs or have them
>> privately
>> : >>>>>>>>> trained, it seems that labradors are rarely chosen. What
>> advantage
>> : >>>>>>>>> do guide dog programs feel labradors have over other breeds
>> like
>> : >>>>>>>>> the golden retriever, German shepherd, doberman pinscher, or
>> even
>> : >>>>>>>>> the Australian shepherd.
>> : >>>>>>>>> When I asked a GEB instructor why they didn't pass more
>> goldens
>> : >>>>>>>>> through, they said it was because a lot of goldens (their
>> goldens
>> : >>>>>>>>> anyway), didn't have the confidence it took to be a guide
>> dog.
>> : >>>>>>>>> They were not confident enough to make independent or
>> executive
>> : >>>>>>>>> decisions.
>> : >>>>>>>>> Also, I have heard that German shepherds are more sensitive
>> to
>> : >>>>>>>>> corrections, and also require more of a routine. They do not
>> adapt
>> : >>>>>>>>> to new environments or change as well as other breeds.
>> : >>>>>>>>> Do you guys find this to be true? What do you think?
>> : >>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>> : >>>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>> --
>> : >>>>>>>>> Raven
>> : >>>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> : >>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>> : >>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>> : >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>> : >>>>>>>>> for
>> : >>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>> : >>>>>>
>> : >>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40waveca
>> : >>>>> ble.co
>> : >>>>>>>>> m
>> : >>>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> : >>>>> et
>> : >>>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> : >>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>> --
>> : >>>>>>> Raven
>> : >>>>>>>
>> : >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> : >>>>>>>
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>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>> --
>> : >>>>> Raven
>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> : >>>>> om
>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>>
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>> : >>>>>
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> : >>>>
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>> : >>>
>> : >>>
>> : >>> --
>> : >>> Raven
>> : >>>
>> : >>> _______________________________________________
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>> : >>
>> : >>
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-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence