[nagdu] An Introduction

Fri Aug 22 15:08:25 UTC 2014

Hi Valerie and all,

I am also very interested in dog training and I think it would be
beneficial to many people to form a dog training division. I plan on
owner training a dog in the future because I don't agree with forceful
methods of training among other things common to most programs.

My dog does the same thing where he will move forward but angle either
to the left or right,  usually when he is distracted by something. In
this situation, I tell him "straight" and praise him when he looks
straight ahead.

I have never found it difficult to read a dog's body language, as long
as they are on leash or close enough for me to touch them. I can
detect aggression in a dog before any vocalization, freezing, staring,
tail position etc.
I hope all goes well with Zion's training.
Danielle and Thai

On 8/22/14, Dan Weiner via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> The only thig I'mimagining you would definitely need help with is traffic
> checking since you, after all don't drive a car--smile.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> nagdu
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 8:20 AM
> To: Julie J.; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] An Introduction
>
> I have never trained a dog to guide and never will. I believe I can imagine
> that you wouldn't need a sighted trainer to help you. There could be a few
> things that someone who is sighted and whom you also trusted could help
> with. Sometimes they could see that your dog is posturing, for instance,
> about another dog, especially if it hasn't gotten to the stage where it is
> being vocal about it. However, it wouldn't be long before you were keenly
> aware of that fact without that help, so I can see being able to do this
> with very little sighted help.
>
> Cindy
>
> On Aug 22, 2014, at 5:40 AM, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Debby,
>>
>> I just received Jetta, who was trained and placed with me by a blind
> trainer.  I am an experienced guide dog handler and I'm certain that makes
> a
> difference here.  Meghan followed behind Jetta and I either with her cane
> or
> with a sighted guide.  She had no difficulty keeping up when she was using
> her cane.  If I noticed Jetta doing something, like curling in toward me, I
> would mention it to Meghan so she could offer suggestions.   We skipped the
> part where the trainer clips a leash to the dog and walks alongside in the
> very beginning.  I've never liked that anyway.   I had no problems at all
> with our training arrangement.  Meghan knows Jetta very well because she
> has
> worked her frequently and nonvisually.  She could give me very specific
> information about how Jetta navigates her environment and what to expect.
> I
> believe that this was Meghan's first time independently placing a guide
> with
> a blind person.  It was a new  experience for both of us.   Previously I
> had
> owner trained my guides.
>>
>> If a person was entirely new to guide dogs and dogs in general I  think
> there would have had to be a lot more training with the person.   The blind
> trainer would have to ask lots of questions and check for proper
> positioning
> when the team was standing still.  I think the blind trainer could use a
> sighted reader/describer to assess some of the visual elements.
>>
>> As far as traffic training goes...it can be done by a blind person, the
> dog portion anyway.  *smile*  You just get a driver and explain very
> thoroughly what you need them to do.  If you can set up ongoing
> communication during the traffic training by cell phone head sets or walkie
> talkies or something, that makes it much easier.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: debby phillips via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 11:10 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] An Introduction
>>
>> Hi Valerie, your post was very interesting, and I can see that you
>> have put a lot of time and thought in to the process.  I do not
>> believe that every blind person should and could train their own dog,
>> but I have seen one that was awesome.  The man who trained him did a
>> great job.  I believe though that his next dog was from one of the
>> schools.  I think I do have a couple of concerns.  One is this:
>> traffic is becoming more and more dangerous.  It doesn't mean that we
>> should all stay home and never go out.  Lol.  But it does mean that
>> we, and our dogs need to be extra aware.  Gone are the days of simply
>> listening for a surge of parallel traffic and heading across the
>> street.  There are turning lanes, right on red, and cars are just
>> plain quieter, and I'm not even talking about the hybrids.  Seeing Eye
>> does a lot of traffic training with our dogs, some of it using the
>> general public and some of it that they set up.  Keeping a certain
>> distance from traffic is important.  So if you can find a trainer who
>> is willing to work with you on that part, I recommend that.  I hope
>> that ow am not sounding like I am against what you are doing, I'm not.
>> I admire you for your effort, and wish you success.
>>
>> I may offend some folks when I say the following: I do not believe
>> that a blind person can train me with a dog.  Dogs and people move
>> faster than people who travel with canes, (though I know some very
>> fast walkers who use canes.  There are certain parts of instruction
>> that a blind person could do, like some of the dog care, things like
>> that.  But instructors see how the dog and person are walking
>> together, they can often figure out whether a different kind of
>> harness is needed, for instance.
>> Right away, my instructor saw that I was not giving Neena enough
>> tension in the harness, and that sometimes I was pushing her.  I don't
>> think that a blind instructor would see that.  In those early days of
>> training it's so important to get feedback, and I really believe, that
>> at least in this situation, that feedback needs to come from an
>> instructor who can make visual observations.  Now, I have had two
>> blind mobility instructors, and they were awesome, and I had no issue
>> with them.  But I think there's a difference between cane travel and
>> traveling with a dog.
>>
>> It's okay if you disagree with me, I had a friend while I was a
>> student at CCB and we debated this issue a lot.  He never did convince
>> me, by the way.  (Grin).  But it wasn't for lack of trying.  But that
>> doesn't mean that I haven't learned a lot from other people who use
>> dogs as guides.  I definitely have, but not the basics, and not stuff
>> dealing with dogs and traffic.
>>
>> Well, I really need to be in bed now.  Tomorrow is Friday, yea!
>> Maybe I'll get to more email then.  Again, good luck, Valerie!
>> Debby and Neena
>>
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