[nagdu] Guide dog schools

Thu Feb 6 11:52:51 UTC 2014

Hello!

When I first got a dog in 1980 I chose not to go to SE because, at that
time, they were extremely formal and their intake personm was not the most
friendly person to deal with. I went to GEB and received seven dogs from
them. IN 2008 I went to SE. (The change of schools had nothing to do with
GEB specificly but some things that were going on within me.) By 2008 the
formal atmosphere of the SE was totally gone. All the staff were friendly
and helpful. Staff from all departments, not just the trainers, frequently
joined us at lunch. Freequently we saw the trainers in the lounges. Everyone
was willing to help out when needed. The biggest difference I saw between SE
and GEB at that time (2008) was the length of the routes we travelled. This
was no doubt due to the fact that SE is closer to Morrristown than GEB is to
White Plains. Although SE routes were longer, both schools employed the
practice of increasing the complexity of the routes. Both schools took the
students to work in New York City at least once. IN both cases, some went
into the City more often because they needed more exposure to subways and
other big city phenomena. At both schools, students who needed more practice
working at night received that experience. In one case, a student wanted to
make sure that his dog would be OK arounhd horses; so the trainer provided
that experience for him.

With respect to poor handlers, I've seen those from all the schools. This, I
believe, has more to do with the handlers themselves than the school. 

Tonithe 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 4:29 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools

Julie, thank you for better articulating what I was trying to say. The
family atmosphere does not come from a level of helpfulness, but a level of
understanding, openness, and friendliness.
I don't think there's a correlation between the informal professionalism of
the GEB staff and the careless GEB dog users that you have met. The staff
are definitely sincere about keeping your dog in check, and ensuring that
your dog is in an appropriate posture according to the situation. Now what
people decide to do when they get home is a different story, and can't be
micromanaged. I too have met and heard of GEB grads who are very lax with
their dogs and don't maintain their self-control. But I also have friends
who live with TSE grads who allow their dogs to get away with everything
short of murder. I don't blame the school for that, I blame the handler for
not utilizing what the school taught them.

On 2/6/14, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Tracey,
>
> I agree with Ravin.  I have heard the same things about the Seeing 
> Eye, though I would never say them myself since I have never attended 
> there.  I know TSE turns out good dogs, and I have heard good things 
> about the training staff.
>
> But yes, I felt like there was a family atmosphere at GEB.  On our 
> time off, the trainers would come out and chat with us, work with us, 
> or help to answer any questions we had.  It was clear that they were 
> there to work with us and instruct us on how to use our dogs, but they 
> never had an attitude of cold professionalism.  They were very 
> friendly, open, and professional in an informal way.  Perhaps this 
> treatment is not for everyone, but I loved it when I was there.
>
> That actually happened to me.  My dog jumped on my bed to lay next to 
> me in the middle of the night, without me realizing it, and the 
> trainer saw this in the morning.  I suppose my curtains weren't fully 
> drawn...  I thought we were going to be in sooooo much trouble, but 
> the trainer actually thought it was hysterical, and she realized I 
> probably didn't realize what my dog had done.  Well, and she knew the 
> dog in question...  How she got up there while on tie down, I still do 
> not understand.  The point is that the trainers and staff get to know 
> us as people as well as dog users, and they are very chill and 
> encouraging.
>
> On 2/5/14, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>> Hi Raven.
>> I have experienced the same level of helpfulness at TSE and GDB.  I 
>> guess I
>>
>> just don't call it by the same name.
>>
>> When I've been caught by a trainer doing something against the rules, 
>> he or
>>
>> she has not exactly scolded me, but has pointed out why the rule is 
>> in place.
>> I think that's better than ignoring the transgression.  It makes sure 
>> I know
>>
>> the reason, but leaves the choice up to me.
>> Sorry, but I've met plenty of Guiding Eyes graduates who don't 
>> exercise any
>>
>> discipline over their dogs at all, or so it seems to me.  I've also 
>> met some
>>
>> who do, but, as usual, it's the slobs who stick out. Maybe I just run 
>> into more GEB users around New York, too.
>> Tracy
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 11:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools
>>
>>
>>> Hi Tracy,
>>> As someone who attended GEB, I believe the family atmosphere that 
>>> most students' experience has more to do with the level of attention 
>>> and help they receive from everyone, not just their assigned instructor.
>>> The instructors, nurses, and kitchen staff were all willing to 
>>> accommodate students' needs and requests. If anyone needed help, 
>>> there was always someone available who could assist you or answer 
>>> your questions. They treated us with the most care and compassion, 
>>> you know, like family members.
>>> Also, the atmosphere during my class was very casual and laid-back.
>>> None of the staff were uptight about anything. They would eat meals 
>>> with us, joke around with us, and they never talked to any of us as 
>>> if we were below them.
>>> In addition, while GEB set boundaries for the dogs in dorm rooms, 
>>> the instructors never jumped down anyone's throat for not sticking 
>>> to those boundaries. For instance, a friend of mine allowed her dog 
>>> up on her bed. An instructor visited her to talk about something and 
>>> saw this, but the instructor did not scold her about it at all. 
>>> Another time, my instructor walked back to my room with me to look 
>>> at something. When we entered my room, my dog was freely roaming my
room.
>>> Now, we had only been together for 2 weeks. He had left my cheese 
>>> and crackers on the night table untouched, the food bin in the open 
>>> closet untouched, and the plastic waste bin on the ground untouched. 
>>> My instructor did not scold me about this at all. She only commented 
>>> that I had a very good dog.
>>> So that familial atmosphere has nothing to do with the negative 
>>> things you listed. It is about the way staff interact with students. 
>>> Of course, we associate it with our own school because that's the 
>>> experience we have to speak of. Not because our school is hovering 
>>> over us like helicopter parents, or because other schools don't 
>>> measure up, or because other schools are below ours.
>>>
>>> On 2/5/14, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>>>> I saw someone here with a Guiding Eyes dog trot out the old 
>>>> chestnut about how formal The Seeing Eye is.  I guess it was 
>>>> formal, 40 years ago, but it hasn't been so for quite a long time.  
>>>> It's amazing how long that idea is sticking around.
>>>> To me, the atmosphere at TSE was like that at GDB, what I call 
>>>> friendly but
>>>>
>>>> professional.
>>>> I often hear people talk about the "family atmosphere" of their school.
>>>> I'm
>>>>
>>>> never sure what that means.  Does it mean people who feel they can 
>>>> poke into
>>>>
>>>> my personal business?  Does it mean people who gossip about 
>>>> everyone else?
>>>> Does it mean we're us, and they're the big smelly them?
>>>> None of these things appeal to me.  I'm more comfortable with 
>>>> friendly professional--we like each other, but mainly we're here to 
>>>> do a great job together.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Raven
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National 
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri 
> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the 
> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only 
> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have 
> eternal life."
> John 3:16
>
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>

--
Raven

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