[nagdu] Labradoodles
Larry D. Keeler
lkeeler at comcast.net
Thu May 1 00:10:42 UTC 2014
Being a mix, they can come with curlyy or almost straight coats. Holly's
taill is all lab.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darla Rogers" <djrogers0628 at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 6:41 PM
Subject: [nagdu] Labradoodles
> rofl, Larry; when you described her coat, I was thinking she was a
> labradoodle; her coats sounds a lot like a labradoodle who lived in the
> same
> complex with me in Florida--I just love that coat--as you say not to curly
> but lush and beautiful with rather a soft curl.
> Darla & Happy Huck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D. Keeler
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:14 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>
> No, half poodle. She is a brown labradoodle. She has a silver-red tinge to
> her coat. in horses the color is called liver. Don't know if a girl wants
> to
> be described as live colored or not. But it makes Holly look good.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darla Rogers" <djrogers0628 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>
>
>> Dear Larry,
>>
>> I have forgotten; is Holly a Poodle? Her coat sounds gorgeous.
>> No; this silly just needs to be reminded he words for me and not G Q
>> public. <grin> Darla & Happy Huck
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D.
>> Keeler
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:52 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>
>> Well, Julie, I love all dogs and would react with all of them if allowed.
>> I
>> do sometimes let other blind folks pet Holly. Not because they have
>> never pet a dog before or want to know what one looks like. I've grown
>> up with dogs and wouldn't let other blind folks pet Holly while working
> iether.
>> Its
>> not alolowed from sighted or blind folks. However, when out of the
>> Harrness, go for it! Sometimes I let blind folks feel Holly because
>> she has an unusual coat. Not as curly as a poodle but not like a lab
>> iether. More like a soft terrier. Her coat is unusual enough that
>> blind folks want to feel it. But, even then, they have to wait until
>> she is not working.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 11:10 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>
>>
>>> Raven,
>>>
>>> My current guide is a lab and Boxer mix. Jetta, the Doberman, is
>>> tentatively arriving mid August. In my experience very, very, very few
>>> people correctly identify the breed of either of them. Jetta more so
>>> than Monty, but she has natural ears which I guess makes her look not
>>> like a Doberman. Odd, but there it is. Belle, Monty and Jetta are
>>> all black dogs and fairly large. I think that makes a difference.
>>> Also none of them have been into greeting people much. I think that
>>> shows in their body language. My first guide, Tia, would look at
>>> people with her gooey eyes and wag gently, which caused a lot of
>>> people to talk/pet/interact with her.
>>>
>>> I think another factor for me is that the other service dog handler
>>> in my tiny town is kind of unpleasant. I've heard lots and lots of
>>> stories about negative encounters folks have had with her and her dog.
>>> One young lady told me she was walking down the street whistling
>>> because it was a nice day and she was enjoying it, when the
>>> unpleasant service dog handler started screaming at her that she was
>>> distracting her dog. I understand that whistling could be
>>> distracting to a dog, but I think there are better ways to deal with
>>> the situation, realizing that sometimes people whistle and it isn't
>>> all about distracting the dog all the time. anyway, I think she has
>>> scared a
>> lot of people off about guide and service dogs.
>>>
>>> But I don't know, even when I travel I don't get a lot of anything
>>> about the dog. I'm going out of town this weekend, so we'll see if
>>> me saying it isn't a problem makes me look like a fool! that's
>>> usually how it goes, say things are great and the universe will show
>>> you otherwise. *smile*
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Raven Tolliver
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:50 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>
>>> I have learned that a name can be a very intimate thing to know about
>>> a person, or a dog for that matter. I do not only give a fake name
>>> for my dog, but in some situations, I also use an alias for myself. I
>>> have experienced far too much stalkerish behavior and obsessive
>>> questioning/attention-getting attempts to be so liberal with the
>>> giving out of my dog's name.
>>> I have trained my dog to ignore others making stupid noises at him.
>>> My petting policy will change from dog to dog. It will just depend on
>>> how much each dog is distracted by petting from strangers. The Golden
>>> Guy is not distracted by it, so I allow it from time to time.
>>> Julie, it may be possible that you don't get asked as often as others
>>> because you use a Dobie as your guide. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>>> I get asked most often by customers in grocery stores, and by people
>>> at the transit station or on the bus.
>>> Also, I'm totally with Vivianna on not wanting to interact with the
>>> public so much. I just want to go on about my business most days,
>>> rather than talk about my dog for half an hour. There is much more to
>>> me than just my dog.
>>> I understand that my dog is beautiful and irresistible, but at the
>>> same time, we are not a spectacle for everyone to gawk at, swoon
>>> over, and prattle on about. I am not an exhibit at some zoo or
>>> something, I am a human being. I would appreciate it if I was treated
>>> with the same dignity as others without a dog.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/30/14, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> The not using the dogs name comes from the fact that some folks will
>>>> call your dog while your working. I'me actually had this happen.
>>>> People whom you
>>>>
>>>> don't know will often say hi or tell your dog to do things. The name
>>>> thing is so that people whom you don't want calling your dog will be
>>>> slightly less
>>>>
>>>> distracting to the dog. Also, I've had lots of folks who remember
>>>> Holly's name but not mine. Sometimes I'm kind of annoyed by that. I,
>>>> mostly don't use a different name except the Nose. I'll do that when
>>>> I am around folks who I don't really want to hear her name. There is
>>>> no right way to control petting and other human distractions. I take
>>>> them individually and deal with
>>>>
>>>> them accordingly. If folks are being purposely ignorant, then I am
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>> If they are just curious and really don't know, then I deal with
>>>> that as well. Also, it depends on how many folks you meet in a day.
>>>> Also, keep in mind that dogs like people are all different. Some
>>>> like people more than others. I have a friend who went to a school,
>>>> came home and after a couple of years was having issues with his
>>>> dog. The main issue was that his dog was
>>>>
>>>> dragging him out in the street. Turns out that he was letting women
>>>> pet his
>>>>
>>>> dog in the harrness and when women were walking on the opposite side
>>>> of the
>>>>
>>>> street, he wanted to go for a visit. The behavior was corrected but
>>>> I for one don't really want to take the chance of helping Holly
>>>> develop bad or unsafe behaviors.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Kristen" <kskristen at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:19 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I agree with you completely; I'm having trouble understanding the
>>>>>changing
>>>>>
>>>>>the name thing. My family calls Corvette Cory for short, and he has
>>>>>already starting coming to that. You wouldn't want to confuse them
>>>>>more with a totally different name. And, as you said, the dog would
>>>>>still know
>>>>>
>>>>>someone is talking to it. You still can give the correct name, but
>>>>>politely ask them not to talk to your guide, which will educate them
>>>>>at the
>>>>>
>>>>>same time.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kristen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:31:55 -0700
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> Honestly, I don't get the name game. If you talk to or about a
>>>>> dog, the dog is smart enough to know, regardless of if the name is
> used.
>>>>> Furthermore,
>>>>>
>>>>> as
>>>>> others have already pointed out, it only takes the dog so long to
>>>>> figure it out if you use another name.
>>>>> When people ask about the name of your dog, they are not trying to
>>>>> make trouble. If you think that the person is going to use the
>>>>> name, then you could say something like, "My dog is named ..' but
>>>>> please don't talk to him/her." Some people are going to talk to
>>>>> your dog regardless of what you say or if you give the name. I
>>>>> would rather give the name and have to explain to the person than
>>>>> not give the name; otherwise, people will never learn. I have told
>>>>> a lot of people that my dog is named Lexia, many of whom were
>>>>> complete strangers who I probably will never see again, so it does
>>>>> not really matter. Only a few of the people with whom I interact
>>>>> on a regular basis talk to Lexia, and they only do it when I say it
>>>>> is okay to talk to her or when she is not in harness.
>>>>> I usually let people pet Lexia in harness if they ask. Luckily, I
>>>>> have not had too many people try to pet her without asking. I
>>>>> usually do not let people pet her if we are standing up, especially
>>>>> if we are about to go somewhere any minute. When people pet Lexia,
>>>>> she is in a sit or preferably a down position, and she stays by me.
>>>>> I do not allow her to crawl toward the person who is petting her.
>>>>> If she does, then I gently pull her back.
>>>>> If
>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> behavior continues, then the visiting session is over.
>>>>> I don't really like little kids petting Lexia, particularly the
>>>>> ones who get excited as soon as they see her. However, on
>>>>> occasion, I do hear the opposite where the child tells the parent
>>>>> that it is a working dog and not to bother it, which I find quite
> amusing.
>>>>> I used to have a sign to the harness handle. I don't remember what
>>>>> it said.
>>>>> It did not really help. The people who want to pet your dog are
>>>>> going to
>>>>>
>>>>> pet
>>>>> you dog regardless of if there is a sign, so the best that you can
>>>>> do is ask them not to pet your dog and do something, such as move
>>>>> away, if they don't listen. You can also try to train your dog to
>>>>> ignore people.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla
>>>>> Rogers
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 6:24 PM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Rox'e,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you so much for sharing a whole different perspective on
>>>>> petting and setting up one's dog to respond to what you need and
>>>>> not what you don't, and it surely helps to have cooperative
>>>>> coworkers who understand and support what you are doing.
>>>>> Darla & Happy Huck
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The
>>>>> Pawpower Pack
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:19 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never given a false name for my dogs. I would think they'd
>>>>> just hear me cueing my dog using her real name and would know it
>>>>> anyway. Also, I'd probably forget and give different names to the
>>>>> same person. lol.
>>>>> Part of the work I do with my dogs is setting they up for this
>>>>> exact situation. If someone calls Laveau's name and she does not
>>>>> know them well, she will ignore it. If she knows them, she will
>>>>> let me know that someone
>>>>>
>>>>> we
>>>>> know is calling her and I can choose to have her take me to them or
>>>>> just go on our way.
>>>>> Soleil is learning the same skills, and my friends, coworkers and
>>>>> interpreters help me by setting up situations like are being
>>>>> described.
>>>>> Since I can't hear, I can't police Soleil's interaction with the
>>>>> public like a hearing person. I have to trust my dog to be able to
>>>>> work through distractions like that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>>>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>>>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 9:35 AM, "Larry D. Keeler"
>>>>> <lkeeler at comcast.net
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Have not changed my pet policy. I'll tell folks I know her name
>>>>> and sometimes I'll take her harrness off so she can interact with
> others.
>>>>> However, I usually ignore folks whom I don't know. I don't make up
>>>>> names often although I have been known to.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raven Tolliver"
>>>>> <ravend729 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:23 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh yes! It annoys me to no end when people ask what my dog's name is.
>>>>> I just tell them his name is K, or the most comical one I've been
>>>>> using is Celestial Seasonings. Got the idea from a woman whose
>>>>> golden's name is Lipton. So cute. But I tell people Celestial
>>>>> Seasonings, and no one is inclined to even call him. Probably
>>>>> 'cause they know I'm bs-ing them. Most of my acquaintances and
>>>>> classmates here on campus don't even know the Golden Guy's name.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/29/14, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I was very strict about not letting anyone pet Viva when I first
>>>>> came home with her, but I've relaxed my stance since then.
>>>>> Obviously I don't let anyone touch her when we're working, but if
>>>>> we're just sitting somewhere and someone asks to pet her, I will
>>>>> generally let them. I do tell them that if she gets too excited,
>>>>> then the meet and greet is over. it's also a great way for me to
>>>>> teach her self-control and obedience since I'll make her lay down
>>>>> and
>> stay.
>>>>>
>>>>> Minh
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/29/14, The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> With Soleil, I have used petting as a practice time for self control.
>>>>> She
>>>>> loves people, and right at first, I knew that I was going to just
>>>>> have to restrict all petting, or use the petting as an exercise.
>>>>> Since I'm Deafblind, people tend to just pet because they are not
>>>>> getting my attention with me by asking unless I'm with a hearing
>>>>> person.
>>>>> So if I have time to allow petting, I first tell her down. I tell
>>>>> the person wanting to pet that she can only be pet in a down and
>>>>> that if she gets up, they are to stop, I thank them for helping me
>>>>> with her training, so they feel good. They pet her and then in mid
>>>>> pet I ask her to come away and touch my hand and click and treat.
>>>>> She is a lab, so would rather eat than lay and get petted. And her
>>>>> getting up ends the session. If people pet without asking she will
>>>>> turn to me.
>>>>> My coworkers and friends also help in this exercise as well.
>>>>> Because I'm Deafblind and a lot of my friends are deafblind, and I
>>>>> work with deafblind children, she has to learn to be touched
>>>>> without coming unhinged with joy. Deafblind people are a pretty
>>>>> tactile lot and if a deafblind child has never seen a guide dog,
>>>>> they can look at her-- with their
>>>>> hands--
>>>>> and learn. So far, Soleil's doing really well!
>>>>>
>>>>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>>>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>>>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 6:41 AM, "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally I just say, "No, but thank you for asking." I smile and
>>>>> make it seem like them asking was a wonderful thing. Then I move
>>>>> on. Standing there will encourage a discussion or debate or
>>>>> whatever, moving on indicates that you don't want to discuss your
>>>>> no petting rule and it also reinforces that you need to get stuff
>>>>> done and don't have time for petting.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do allow petting on occasion. If I do I let the person know it's
>>>>> up to Monty if he wants to be petted. I give Monty his release cue
>>>>> and let him approach if he wants. Usually he will give the person
>>>>> a perfunctory sniff and he's done. Every now and then he will back
>>>>> away from the person, which is kind of embarrassing, but they get
>>>>> it that he doesn't want to be petted.
>>>>> He's not very into meet and greet with people though, so this works.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last week I was in the grocery store and there was a Mom with about
>>>>> four kids. The kids wanted to pet Monty and asked their Mom.
>>>>> Usually parents just say the dog is working and leave it alone, but
>>>>> this Mom went on a complete tirade. I thought the kids were
>>>>> perfectly well behaved in asking their Mom first if they could
>>>>> approach me to ask if they could pet, but Mom really lit into them.
>>>>> Then she was on to another topic and how horrible the kids were and
>>>>> on and on and on. So about four isles later I asked one of the
>>>>> kids if he would like to pet the dog. It made the kids day. I
>>>>> can't remember the last time I've offered petting to a kid, but I
>>>>> really felt bad for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I talk to people about guide dogs or if I'm doing a
>>>>> presentation or something, I always stress that dogs are different
>>>>> and people are different, but asking is always okay. the answer
>>>>> might be no but politely asking and respecting the answer is good.
>>>>> It's interesting that I rarely have issues with kids. It's adults
>>>>> that have issues with self control.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Darla Rogers
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 1:36 AM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you Raven and Michael; I believe, and several others have
>>>>> also states this practice, just not to allow it while we are out
> working.
>>>>> I don't owe the general public anything; if they want to pet a dog,
>>>>> the shelters are crying for volunteers to socialize their dogs; on
>>>>> the other hand, if it raises money for my school. <tongue firmly
>>>>> in
>>>>> cheek> Very Gratefully, Darla & Handsome Huck
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
>>>>> Hingson
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:40 AM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not permit anyone to pet Africa while she is in harness. If
>>>>> people want to pet her and I have the time I will remove her
>>>>> harness and then allow petting. If I do not have time I politely
>>>>> explain that while the harness is on she is working and cannot be
>>>>> petted and that I do not have time to remove it now. Especially
>>>>> when people go along with my wishes I thank them very much. If
>>>>> people still insist on petting Africa I will get more stern.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla
>>>>> Rogers
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 10:22 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Handsome Huck is a people magnet and peo9ple are
>>>>> magnets for him; there is some petting--last time going through a
>>>>> revolving door--and I used to let him sit and be petted, but I
>>>>> don't believe this is in the best interest of our working
>>>>> relationship?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas? Strategies? Explanations?
>>>>>
>>>>> Darla & Mister Socialite
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Darla J. Rogers
>>>>>
>>>>> djrogers0628 at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>>>>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was
>>>>> vanity:
>>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E.
>>>>> Lawrence
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Raven
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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