[nagdu] Regarding Recent Messages

Fri Jan 9 03:37:17 UTC 2015

Nicole.

I also think that is a post that is not only well written, but
unfortunately, it was necessary.

As for dog behavior. Yes, dogs have some interesting patterns. Just
like humans. they are creatures who prove by their capacity to learn
that they have the capacity to think for themselves to a certain
extent.
While our guides and/or service animals are trained beyond belief,
they are still first and foremost dogs.
Instinct does over-ride training.
Jada Barks. I have accepted that it is something I can never change.
Corrections don't work, (both verbal or leash) and I am no longer
permitted to use a vibrating collar on her. So I chalk it up to she
hears something and she wants to tell me about it.
Jada also checks people out. If she sees someone she knows, she pulls
to them. I chalk that up to when I got Jada I was horribly imistreated
in my high school by other peers. I saw someone who was nice to me,
and I would walk toward them to interact. Jada picked up on that and
now will pull toward people she knows to be friendly.
I have realized, respected and accepted that some of the things Jada
does for me may go against her training, but she is ultimately not
doing things to annoy or upset me; she is trying to help in any way
that she can. I try to praise her for barking if someone is
approaching my door, especially if I am in my apartment alone. Calling
her to me and telling her that it's ok, then making her lay down seems
to work for us.

Now that goes to show that what works for one person will not work for
everyone else. If yanking on your dogs correction collar is the only
way you can get them to stop eating snow off the sidewalk is the only
way to get them to stop, then pull away. Especially if they are in
harness or it is interfering with their work. If it is relieving, they
are on long leash and they want to eat the snow, I know we're cold out
side in the winter, but give them a few minutes to eat snow if you
know that it is  clean and there is no salt in. They are puppies, and
I know my girl loves snow/anything that she can eat because she is a
lab.

I sincerely hope no one becomes offended by anything I have written.
Feel free to write me off list if there are any problems. I always
appreciate criticism if the criticism is constructive. Destructive
criticism has no place in my life.

Thank you all, and Nicole, good for you for sticking up for what is
right. Thank you. :)

On 1/8/15, Sheila Leigland via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> hello Nicole that is a well written post and I understand your reasons
> for posting it. I for one didn't think anything of the sort about your
> being judgmental or anything even approaching it. I'm glad you are still
> on the list and you deserve respect and fair treatment.
> On 1/7/2015 9:45 PM, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu wrote:
>> This email is in regards to some recent messages, particularly certain
>> ones
>> that were aimed at me. First, I usually don't write emails like this, or,
>> if
>> I do, they get deleted and not sent. But I am tired of this, and I won't
>> tolerate it any more.
>> Some of you accused me of being harsh and judgmental in my message to
>> John.
>> I don't write that way. Any of you who have been on this list for any
>> extended amount of time with me and read some or most of my messages
>> should
>> know that. If it came across as harsh or judgmental, then I am sorry.
>> Everyone has a right to express his/her opinions. And agreeing to
>> disagree
>> does not mean that you don't express your opinion. I don't expect people
>> to
>> change based on my opinions, but I expect them to at listen and consider
>> them instead of just saying "mine is better because..." without including
>> why other alternatives don't work. No, this is not a list for debates,
>> but
>> any of you who ever took any type of writing class will probably remember
>> that, when writing a persuasive essay, it was a requirement to not only
>> say
>> why you choose a certain side but also to say why you did not choose the
>> other side, which means actually researching the other side.
>> And, even though there are opinions, there also certain things that are
>> facts. It is a fact that it is not very nice to punish a creature that
>> has
>> the mental capacity to learn not to do something, be it human, canine, or
>> other, without first teaching that creature the rules. Yes, some dogs do
>> not
>> follow the rules because they forget or they like to challenge authority
>> or
>> because what have you, but it is still not nice to not at least give them
>> a
>> chance. Even if a dog does know better, it does not mean that a dog will
>> follow the rules. Dogs may be trained, but they still often go off of
>> instincts instead of reasoning. Sometimes, they just need a gentle
>> reminder,
>> not a harsh correction. I do not know what type of corrections Pilot
>> teaches, but I know that, sometimes, schools teach people to yank
>> *REALLY*
>> hard. As some people have already said, that is probably not what you
>> want
>> to do when you are trying to get your dog to relieve. There are other
>> methods, such as giving the command again or very lightly tugging on the
>> leash. If nothing else, just take the dog back inside if the dog does not
>> go. Just like dogs will eat if they are hungry, they will relieve when
>> they
>> need to.
>> Going back to my message, okay, maybe I assumed some things, but I would
>> like to point out that people who supported the corrections also made
>> assumptions. No, none of us know Mollie. I don't know what Mollie was
>> doing,
>> and neither do any of you. Given that it was snow, and most dogs
>> absolutely
>> love snow, I doubt that Mollie was eating snow instead of relieving to
>> test
>> John.
>> Different dogs need different things, that is a fact.
>> John asked about one thing: Dogs eating *FRESH* snow. If it had been
>> dirty
>> snow or snow of which he did not know the status, I may have given a
>> different answer.
>> I think that that is all that I have to say for now. If you would like to
>> discuss this, then please feel free to email me either on or off list,
>> but
>> please don't accuse me of being/doing something that I am not.
>>
>> Nicole
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-- 
Abigail Bolling
Ohio Association Of Blind Students: Treasurer

Email: Abigail.me.bolling94 at gmail.com and violingirl30794 at hotmail.com
Phone: 513-258-5043
"Dance like no one is watching, love like you'll never be hurt, sing
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