[nagdu] Pickup The Poop
Mária Orovčíková
maria.orovcikova at gmail.com
Wed Mar 25 19:25:57 UTC 2015
Hi Lisa and all,
I could not have said it better. I agree with everything what you said.
I have all the same situation like you do.
I am not saying blind people should not be responsible for cleaning up
after their dogs, I am just saying we are not taught this skill during
training process. I require to know this skill when I get my new guide,
but they say they are not going to teach it to me since we are exempt
from picking up after dogs.
I realize it is a necessary skill to know how to pick up because not all
sighted people are willing to help blind people to pick up. It is not
their duty doing that and in private areas picking up is required
because there are cases when we do not have any access to bushes or woods.
Lisa, are guide dogs in Germany trained to relieve on concrete or not?
Guide dogs in Slovakia are trained to go on the grass only.
As I said many times on this list, We are also trained to hold a guide
dog's harness and a short leash in left hand and have a short symbol
cane in right hand.
It would be wonderful to know about training methods in other European
countries and all around the world.
With kind regards
Maria
On 25. 3. 2015 19:41, Lisa via nagdu wrote:
> Buddy,
> I can totally understand that if you are taught to pick up after your
> dog, it's hard to understand why people suddenly say it's not possible.
> I have my first guide and in training I was told that I just wouldn't
> have the possibility to pick up. In Germany, that's common sense among
> guide dog schools and instructors. Therefore it's even stated in local
> laws. When I started reading about international guide dog systems and
> handlers, I was very surprised about the difference. As I pointed out
> earlier, I'm very willing to now learn to pick up. But given the fact
> that we're also taught to let our dogs relieve off-leash or on a long
> leash I think it's understandable to say it can be a good thing to
> don't have to crawl into bushes to pick up.
> You know, it's a completely different story when you relieve your dog
> on the short-leash and can feel his movements. Then I can imagine that
> it's really no problem to pick up after some time of practicing. So
> please don't get me wrong. It's just a very different approach I was
> taught.
>
> Lisa
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "Lisa" <dreamymarmot93 at yahoo.de>; "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 7:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pickup The Poop
>
>
> I don't know. I fail to understand why blind people should be exempt
> from picking up after their dogs (I understand it's the same in some
> states. New York springs to mind, I've hard it before, anyway.) I
> mean...blind people's dogs' poop sticks to shoes and is as stinky and
> disagreeable as sighted people's dogs' poop, and just as rotten to
> step in, so why should we be exempted from this responsibility? After
> all, with the right of being accompanied by a guide dog come certain
> responsibilities, this being just one. I would suggest that such an
> exemption has an underlying subtext that, of course we should be
> exempted from this responsibility. After all, us unfortunate blind
> people can't be expected to shoulder their own responsibilities. How
> far does this attitude extend? It may start, or be expressed (pardon
> the unintentional pun) in this one instance, but what others? How can
> blind people be expected to raise children, or be responsible for
> supervising people in a job, or for that matter, having a job in the
> first place, or do their own shopping, or clean their houses, or. ...
>
> It's a thing to think about, before you are too glad of being able to
> shirk this responsibility.
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>
>
>
>
>> On Mar 25, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Lisa via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Maria and all,
>>
>> just wanted to tell you that in Germany, blind people with guide dogs
>> don't have to pick up after their dogs either. Therefore it's not
>> taught to us during training.
>> Well, on one hand I'm happy to be part of this exeption but of course
>> I did experience the same things as you, Maria. So people getting
>> very angry and disrespectful. I double-checked with our local
>> authorities who all confirmed to me that blind people don't have to
>> pick up but the public doesn't know that. That's a very uncomfortable
>> feeling.
>>
>> I think the whole relieving issue is treated differently over here.
>> Because I was taught to let my dog on the long leash and don't bother
>> him so he can do his business. It sounds like you in the US/Canada
>> learned to observe your dog carefully and therefore know when they
>> have relieved.
>> Well, i'd be interested in learning how to pick up. Just to be
>> capable of doing it and do it in areas where I know there are people
>> around or just in places I don't know.
>> Ah, and I should mention that of course I let my dog relieve only in
>> places where it should bother people the least. That means, of course
>> not on or next to the sidewalk/street/front lawn but between but
>> under bushes etc. Taylor also learnt to relieve in such areas, so he
>> goes deeper into the woods to do his business.
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mária Orovčíková via nagdu"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "Vivianna" <irishana at gmail.com>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
>> Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:25 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Relieving harness question, was Re: Pickup The Poop
>>
>>
>>> Hello list,
>>> I've been reading this topic with interest.
>>> The school I have my guide dog from do not teach us how to pick up
>>> after our guide dogs. Trainers say blind people and people with
>>> other disabilities are exempted from picking up here in Slovakia.
>>> I have read the state law regarding guide and assistance dogs very
>>> carefuly because I needed to have some knowledge when I did my
>>> thesis a few years ago. There was not a single word written about
>>> blind people and people with other disabilities being exempted from
>>> picking up.
>>> There might be some local laws or documents saying about that, but
>>> each city/town/village might have it different.
>>> For example when I asked the police in my town whether I must pick
>>> up after my guide dog or not, they said people with disabilities
>>> were exempted from picking up after their dogs. When I asked them to
>>> provide me some documents regarding that, they were unable to give
>>> me them because they did not have any oficial document of that kind
>>> , I did not find it even on my town website.
>>> When I went to other city to see my friend, I was told that I had to
>>> pick up after my dog.
>>> The problem is I was not taught how to pick up and I had a blind
>>> friend and she could not help me with picking up as well, so I had
>>> to leave it on the grass. This happened many times.
>>> I felt very embarrassed because I was not able to pick up after my
>>> dog and people shauted at me quite often for leaving it on the
>>> grass. Many people are quite upset about it which I understand
>>> perfectly.
>>> I know in this situation relieving harness might be of help, but I
>>> am not sure if we have it here in Slovakia, so our guides are not
>>> trained using it.
>>> Could you please explain how relieving harness works?
>>> Do you put it on your dog right after you take him/herout or do you
>>> let your dog to go and do number one first and then put the
>>> relieving harness on your dog and let them do number two?
>>> I hope I do not sound very silly, but I've never had relieving
>>> harnes, so cannot imagine how it works.
>>> I know using relieving harness brings you advantages, but are there
>>> any disadvantages using it? If so, what these disadvantages are?
>>> Thank you for your replies in advance.
>>> With kind regards
>>> Maria from Slovakia
>>> On 25. 3. 2015 14:25, Vivianna via nagdu wrote:
>>>> Hi.
>>>> i find that, if you relieve the dog where it does not move while
>>>> pooping, you can pick it up much better.
>>>> try the following; first, don’t be afraid to feel your dog’s back.
>>>> this way, you know where the poop is and, if the dog is even moving.
>>>> try curbing the dog. this will stop them from moving but, you will
>>>> have to pick up from the street.
>>>> relieve the dog somewhere else where there is a boundary. like, off
>>>> the side of a sidewalk or driveway. this way you can treat it the
>>>> same as curbing the dog and, they will learn not to move past the
>>>> boundary.
>>>> if you really have multiple disabilities and can not pick up then,
>>>> get a relieving harness but, it’s much more of a pain than just
>>>> picking up. thousands of us do it with no problems, you can too.
>>>> just practice and you will figure out the best way for you.
>>>> hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> Vivianna
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 25, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Becky Frankeberger via nagdu
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone should have the relieving harness, it is you Elise. My
>>>>> dad on
>>>>> dialysis would get dizzy for no reason. So please ask GDB for one
>>>>> and since
>>>>> you are close to campus, they can come out and show you how to use
>>>>> this
>>>>> marvel.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know for a fact with my health taking a bit of a nose dive I
>>>>> will ask for
>>>>> one next time. If someone knows where I can buy one now, this
>>>>> would be
>>>>> amazing help for me. I gather GDB has them and offers them to
>>>>> grads who need
>>>>> it. Elise you need one. Those with second disabilities need one to
>>>>> stay
>>>>> independent. Becky for sure needs one and will buy one if someone
>>>>> tells me
>>>>> where I can get one.
>>>>>
>>>>> b.butterfly at comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>>
>>>>> Becky and her Jake, dats me, toothy grin. Love Jake
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elise
>>>>> Berkley via
>>>>> nagdu
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 8:53 PM
>>>>> To: National Users
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Pickup The Poop
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey, everyone. I have been taking Becky to relieve herself in the
>>>>> alley
>>>>> behind my apartment building. It is a rather large area and I
>>>>> give her area
>>>>> to go. They taught me how to pick up behind her, but I guess I
>>>>> have been
>>>>> missing some of it. Someone mentioned it to me (not a big deal),
>>>>> but they
>>>>> did not want anyone else to mention it. Does anyone have
>>>>> suggestions on how
>>>>> to make sure I am picking up everything from her? Thanks.
>>>>> Elise and Becky
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>
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