[nagdu] service animals and Uber or Lyft again

Fri Oct 16 21:51:38 UTC 2015

Raven, whether you like it or not, when you travel with your guide dog, you are, in fact, representing not only people who are blind but also guide dog users. I get what you are saying about the button; of course I would never use it. From the moment you do use it though, then I am condemned by the drivers when I do not use it. Then it comes down to, “You should use that button on the app because that is the courteous thing to do.” I’ve had that happen to me in cabs before. Of course I don’t live where there is a high incidence of this refusal happening, though it does because it happened to me with Uber. 
Lest you think you are not representing all guide dog users—and I’m not saying this is fair—I was in a beauty school one day and one of the students wanted to pet my dog. I said she couldn’t do it. She said, “Well so-&-so let us pet her dog.” I told her that this was fine if they wanted to do that, I do not. People when they see one blind person do something, then we all do. That’s the way of it. So even if you are going about your business and have places to go and things to do, every time you would tell the Uber company you have a dog, you are telling them I am required to tell them that, too.
Cindy Lou Ray
cindyray at gmail.com

> On Oct 16, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I almost never notify anyone that I'm bringing a dog along with me
> unless it is someone's home, or someone who is giving me a ride
> somewhere.
> However, I agree with Debby here. It's definitely a time and energy
> saver to just let someone know ahead of time, rather than wait for
> that person to arrive and get into it with them, get left, then have
> to request another driver, who might also turn you down.
> If Uber adds a button that sends a notification that someone has a
> service animal, then the ride request goes out with the notification,
> and you don't have to be worried about going through one or multiple
> acceptions and refusals. The first person to accept you will be
> someone whose okay with the dog, and you can be on your way without
> issue.
> 
> You can't force people to obey the law, and no matter how many drivers
> Uber gets rid of for violating the ADA, there are still more to come.
> I have learned that. Getting rid of one doesn't get rid of 'em all,
> and doesn't stop more from joining. So yes, I am in favor of this
> button being added. It would save a lot of hassle. There are truly
> insensitive people out there, and I'm not sure how Uber can screen its
> drivers to weed out the inconsiderate folk. But this button would
> allow us to avoid dealing with them at all.
> If it was required that you have to check a box, saying whether or not
> you have a service animal, I would find that problematic. It should
> always be our choice as to whether we want to disclose or not. But
> tossing in an optional button for service animal users to click is
> great.
> 
> When I need a ride somewhere, I am not representing guide dog
> travelers or the blind community. I'm a woman who has business to take
> care of, and little time or tolerance for nonsense.
> -- 
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
> 
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
> have or what you do.
> 
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
> 
> 
> On 10/16/15, Michael Forzano via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> It's strange that blind people in this iPhone group are defending Uber
>> drivers who deny access to us. I would guess that those people
>> haven't experienced being denied access and being late to meetings, or
>> almost missing a flight due to being denied multiple times in a row,
>> as I have.
>> 
>> My concern is that since we are a relatively small segment of Uber's
>> customer base, that if blind people start contacting them requesting
>> this button be added to the app, that they might actually go ahead and
>> add it.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> On 10/16/15, Marion Gwizdala via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Marianne,
>>> 
>>> 	Let me share with you a similar circumstance about when a private
>>> vehicle becomes a place of public accommodation. If a realtor uses his or
>>> her vehicle to transport buyers to show them homes, their private vehicle
>>> is
>>> now a place of public. Uber drivers are now offering their private
>>> vehicles
>>> to transport the general public and are, therefore, required to abide by
>>> the
>>> provisions of Title III of the ADA. HTH!
>>> 
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marianne
>>> Denning
>>> via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:30 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Marianne Denning
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] service animals and Uber or Lyft again
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone.  The main point I am hearing from people on the iPhone
>>> list
>>> is that the drivers are using their private cars.  My response is that
>>> once
>>> they use a private car for a public purpose then it is not a private car
>>> during that time.  Am I correct here?  I know this is all still getting
>>> through the courts but, is that the position of NAGDU?
>>> 
>>> On 10/14/15, Michael Forzano via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Michael has a good point about the GPS tracking the driver. If you
>>>> tell them in advance and they deny you access, it's your word against
>>>> theirs, whereas if they drive to your location that is clear proof
>>>> they denied you because of your dog.
>>>> Also, I've had two drivers deny me in a row, so it's definitely
>>>> possible, and you might not be saving yourself much time by telling
>>>> them in advance. Then, that's one more driver who thinks they can get
>>>> away with it, which could affect you or another blind person in the
>>>> future.
>>>> 
>>>> On 10/14/15, Michael Hingson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Debby,
>>>>> 
>>>>> You do what you think you must. However, keep in mind that you might
>>>>> have one or two drivers in a row who refuse to take you and you still
>>>>> are short on time and left stranded.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many of us have a significant amount of experience with this issue
>>>>> whether it be with Uber or from other circumstances. Not all of us
>>>>> wish to take such a hard line which is why we all love this free
>>>>> country. Sometimes fighting the good fight does help. You have to be
>>>>> the one who decides your actions.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can only say that you and the rest of us as blind people are the
>>>>> true blindness experts. We will only be perceived as such if we
>>>>> promote our expertise consistently and all the time..
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is easy to have an excuse for our actions, but consider this. If
>>>>> you give advanced notice and a driver chooses not to come to pick you
>>>>> up then what about the next time that driver gets a request and the
>>>>> requester does not inform the driver about their guide dog? You
>>>>> already have empowered the driver because they simply refused you and
>>>>> there will not be consequences for their refusal. As I said in a
>>>>> previous email denying a request is easy.
>>>>> The driver will never be held accountable for their action, or lack
>>>>> of action, unless they are dumb enough to say they denied you because
>>>>> of their dog. Given that Uber is now putting information out to
>>>>> drivers informing them about their responsibility to accept
>>>>> passengers with guide dogs the smart drivers will never tell and we
>>>>> all lose.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debby
>>>>> Phillips via nagdu
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:08 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Cc: Debby Phillips <semisweetdebby at gmail.com>; oagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] service animals and Uber or Lyft again
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know you all are dead set against letting folks know.  And I
>>>>> understand that, but if you're short on time, you don't want to be left
>>> strandand.
>>>>> I
>>>>> just think people have to use common sense, figure out what is
>>>>> happening in their life at that moment, and do what we need to do.
>>>>> If I have lots of time, if I am in a safe place where I don't mind
>>>>> waiting, then I don't tell.
>>>>> If I have an emergency and don't want to be left strandand, then I
>>>>> tell.
>>>>> Sorry, but that's the way it is.     Debby and Nova
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>>> (513) 607-6053
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
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