[NAGDU] Guide Dog Harnesses of the Past was Re: Pilot DogsHarness Question

Buddy Brannan buddy at brannan.name
Sat Apr 23 14:40:45 UTC 2016 

One thing I hated about the GDB harness when I first got Karl in 1996 was the way the handle attached. To attach the handle, they used several S-hooks between the handle and the D-rings on the harness body. If the dog was pulling, it wasn't so bad, but the second he stopped suddenly or slowed down or decreased his pull, the handle kind of collapsed. So, about a couple years after I got Karl, I replaced those S-hooks with carabiners. While they still had a bit more play than I would have liked, they were an improvement, and the handle was now removable. GDB got new harnesses soon after, and I managed to get one, so between 1999 and, I don't know, like 2007 or so (I forget exactly), the GDB harness was very similar to Seeing Eye's, except that there was no martingale, and the girth strap closed with a bolt snap as always.

I recently saw the newer Seeing Eye harnesses. They still have the same handle attachment, requiring a wrench to remove the handle, but girth strap now snaps shut with a quick release, sort of like a backpack clip but metal, not plastic. Very nice. 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: buddy at brannan.name




> On Apr 23, 2016, at 6:47 AM, Caitlyn Furness via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Well, I used to have a pretty good collection, but have lost most of it in various moves, etc.
> 
> I am a dog equipment junkie, though, so who knows??  lol
> 
> Cait
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2016, at 6:34 PM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Caitlyn:
>> 
>> Wouldn't it be interesting to have an exhibit of all kinds of old guide dog 
>> equipment that we could feel and explore?
>> 
>> Sandra
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Caitlyn Furness via NAGDU
>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 1:29 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Caitlyn Furness
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide Dog Harnesses of the Past was Re: Pilot 
>> DogsHarness Question
>> 
>> Lizzie,
>> 
>> The older harnesses had a rigid handle, but it wasnā?Tt metal, like today. 
>> the older handles were made of stiff leather, and the dogs back then pulled 
>> like mac trucks.
>> 
>> My own guide dog use only goes back 30 years, so I bet there are others here 
>> who can add to thisā?¦  and the rigid leather handles are way before my own 
>> time with guide dogs..
>> 
>> Caitlyn
>> 
>>> On Apr 22, 2016, at 1:03 PM, Lisie Foster via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you all so much for answering my questions, including the one about 
>>> the harnesses used by Pilot Dogs.
>>> 
>>> I think the difference I've been noticing is the way the "ears" on Pilot 
>>> harnesses are kept closer to the harness body when compared to many other 
>>> schools, the chest strap that is plain, without reflectors, as well as the 
>>> white handle. Those make it look very distinct, to me, at least! I think 
>>> it's a very nice looking harness, too.
>>> 
>>> I had a second question along similar lines which is not specific to any 
>>> guide dog school. I'm wondering, for anyone who's worked with guide dogs 
>>> for many years, or for anyone who might know about it, how have guide dog 
>>> harnesses changed over the years?
>>> 
>>> I've read before that the original Seeing Eye harnesses were quite heavy. 
>>> But, other than that, I don't know much about anything other than modern 
>>> harnesses. I know about some recent changes, like the change to Swiss 
>>> harnesses by GDB, and the inclusion of ergonomic and offset handle options 
>>> at some schools.
>>> 
>>> What I'd love to know is whether modern harnesses are much different from 
>>> the harnesses issued 20, 30, or even 40 years or more ago, and how they're 
>>> different.
>>> 
>>> I don't know why, but I think this topic is interesting! I hope no one 
>>> minds my questions about this. Thank you!
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> Lisie and Finn ( the sleepy Golden boy )
>>> 
>>> lisiefoster at yahoo.com
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 12:17 PM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Lisie:
>>>> 
>>>> I will try to give you a good description.  Our Pilot Dog harnesses are 
>>>> made
>>>> out of tan leather.  The handle is covered in white vinyl on the sides 
>>>> and
>>>> tan leather at the top and partly down each side.  The handle does not 
>>>> have
>>>> clips or snaps to attach it to the D-rings on the harness body.  The 
>>>> metal
>>>> is wrapped around the ring and tightened by using pliers.  The ears are
>>>> smaller than most and attached with another rib it at the top so they 
>>>> stay
>>>> flat against the back strap.  They do not flop to the side like some 
>>>> schools
>>>> with big floppy ears.  For example.  My previous guide was from GDF and I
>>>> hated their huge ears because the handle would flop off to the right side 
>>>> of
>>>> the dogs body and it allowed too much movement so it was harder to feel 
>>>> the
>>>> dog's movements, especially with a dog who had a very light to almost no
>>>> pull at all.  Pilot Dogs handles are straight.  They do not use any of 
>>>> the
>>>> other weird curved and other strange looking handles I have seen.  I know
>>>> some schools have been trying out some ergonomic handles and for years 
>>>> GDF
>>>> used the off set handles which I also hated so much that my trainer 
>>>> finally
>>>> gave me a straight one with Tara.  The Pilot handles are a bit shorter 
>>>> than
>>>> some schools use.  For example, I am 5 feet 3 inches tall and my little
>>>> golden is about 22 inches tall.  My Pilot handle is 15 inches long.  When
>>>> the trainer gave it to me I thought it would be too short.  However, I
>>>> quickly found that  I liked it because it lets you really feel what the 
>>>> dog
>>>> is doing, especially with a dog like Eva who is very gentle with an
>>>> extremely light pull.  The harness has a quick snap on the side so you 
>>>> don't
>>>> have to fool with the buckle when putting the harness on and off.  I 
>>>> think a
>>>> lot of the schools harness bodies have this type of clip.  The Pilot 
>>>> harness
>>>> does have two snaps across the chest strap where you can snap in a strip 
>>>> of
>>>> flat round prongs that discourage a dog that is pulling too hard.  For 
>>>> dogs
>>>> like Eva who do not pull, our harness has just a plain leather strip that
>>>> snaps into that place.  There is no reflective material on the Pilot 
>>>> harness
>>>> body or handle.  I have heard of some graduates who have applied 
>>>> reflective
>>>> tape over the vinyl sides of the handle.  The Pilot Dog leashes are also
>>>> different from any others I have seen.  They are almost a foot longer 
>>>> with a
>>>> snap and adjustable buckle that are used to form a muzzle if it is ever
>>>> necessary.  I don't like the leash so I ordered a guide dog style leash 
>>>> from
>>>> a pet supply company that sells service dog equipment.  I hope this gives
>>>> you an idea of what the Pilot Dog harness looks like.  It is interesting 
>>>> to
>>>> compare the equipment that the schools use.  I am also sure there are 
>>>> many
>>>> opinions of what trainers and graduates like and dislike when it comes to
>>>> the harnesses and handles.
>>>> 
>>>> Sandra and Eva
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>> From: Lisie Foster via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 10:18 PM
>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
>>>> Cc: Lisie Foster
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Pilot Dogs Harness Question
>>>> 
>>>> Hello, again! OK this is my last post for today, *smiles*!
>>>> 
>>>> If anyone on the list has or has had a dog from Pilot Dogs, I was 
>>>> wondering
>>>> if you'd be willing to describe what their harnesses look like and what
>>>> makes them different from other schools' harnesses?
>>>> 
>>>> I know that they are made to accommodate a clip-on chest piece, that they
>>>> have a white handle with a leather grip, but other than that, I can't 
>>>> quite
>>>> figure out why they seem so different.
>>>> 
>>>> Are the stabilizing bunny ears attached differently? They seem different,
>>>> somehow, perhaps closer to the body of the harness. Also, is there any
>>>> reflective material on their harnesses at all?
>>>> 
>>>> Despite Pilot harnesses being the ones I've seen most often, since we 
>>>> live
>>>> not too far from the school, I've never been able to figure out what it 
>>>> is
>>>> that makes them so distinct from the other schools' harnesses (like TSE,
>>>> GDF, etc.).
>>>> 
>>>> Also, I love Pilot's leashes. I really wish I knew someone who sold them 
>>>> to
>>>> the public, because I'd buy one in a second! I like the fact that they're
>>>> adjustable and are quite a bit longer than most guide dog leashes. The 
>>>> leash
>>>> I'm currently using is a typical guide dog style leash, but is *much*
>>>> longer, being seven feet long from one end of the leather to the other. I
>>>> believe Pilot's leashes are about six feet long.
>>>> 
>>>> If there are any Pilot graduates who might be willing to answer, I'd
>>>> appreciate it so much. I love the look of Pilot's harnesses, yet can't
>>>> exactly figure out what makes them so distinct.
>>>> 
>>>> You can email me off-list, too, at lisiefoster @ yahoo.com. Thank you 
>>>> all,
>>>> again!
>>>> 
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Lisie and Finn, the Buckeyes
>>>> 
>>>> Lisie and Finn
>>>> lisiefoster at yahoo.com
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
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>>> 
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> 
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