[NAGDU] Apprentice Instructor

Mon Aug 7 02:24:39 UTC 2017

Ah. The three words that are the bane of my existence. "Let's be realistic". You know, realistically, blind people can't be doctors either, but there are some. Realistically, blind people can't fly planes or pilot sailboats, but there are some who do that, too. Realistically, blind people can't teach other blind people to travel safely with a white cane, yes, even in very busy cities, but there are a boatload that do that, too. Realistically, blind people can't cook on a stove, or use a barbecue that has charcoal in it, or raise children, but we do those things, too. I'm just saying, my reality isn't your reality, apparently, because, let's be realistic, blind people can and do all the things sighted people do that we realistically can't. What makes guide dog training so special? You can't say on the one hand that we can do anything, but let's be realistic, we can't. And, by the way, I question anyone's belief in our capabilities who would say, "Well, more power to 'em, but I'd never trust another blind person to..." (fill in the blank with whatever you like, and most people have.) 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Mobile (preferred): (814) 431-0962
Phone: (814) 860-3194
Email: buddy at brannan.name

> On Aug 6, 2017, at 9:20 PM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Jody:
> 
> I agree, that would be a perfect job for a blind person at a guide dog 
> school.  I think blind people could do all the training and even do most of 
> the work on class.  However, there is still the need for sight to truly 
> evaluate the team to be sure they are traveling safely in all situations, 
> especially in very heavy traffic or in difficult areas.  Yes, I know as 
> blind people we can do anything sighted people can do but, let's be 
> realistic, there will always be some things we cannot do because they 
> require vision.  I also think the guide dog schools would have trouble 
> convincing their insurance companies that blind instructors were a safe idea 
> for their students.  Pilot Dogs has their trainers work their dogs under 
> blindfold.  I am not sure about the other schools.
> 
> Sandra
> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jody ianuzzi via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 7:52 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Jody ianuzzi
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Apprentice Instructor
> 
> I actually think the best job for a blind apprentice trainer at a guide dog 
> school would be to act as a test pilot for dogs before they are issued to 
> know handlers. I think only a blind handler knows what to expect from the 
> dog and when and where. It might be considered a finishing test
> 
> JODY
> 
> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
> 
> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO BARRIERS  Erik 
> Weihenmayer
> 
>> On Aug 6, 2017, at 7:45 PM, Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have also helped others with owner training.  We all lived.
>> 
>> When I am working with a person who is new to dog travel, I stay right 
>> with them, usually just a pace behind.  I am listening to the traffic and 
>> will move in front if I have even a glimmer of doubt that the dog isn't 
>> going to stop.  I use a cane and will cross my cane in front of the person 
>> and dog to block them from entering the street if necessary.  If there is 
>> no traffic on the street, I will stay behind and let the person figure out 
>> if the dog ran the curb.
>> 
>> I believe blind people can be guide dog trainers and even instructors, but 
>> we aren't going to be able to do it in the same exact way that sighted 
>> people do these jobs.  The results can be the same, but the methods are 
>> going to have to include alternative approaches.
>> 
>> Maybe this means team teaching, maybe it's using a reader or something 
>> like Aira.  Maybe it's 1 on 1 teaching with students, maybe it's something 
>> else. I don't know. The first step will be to find or create a training 
>> program willing to make it work.  There is going to have to be the sincere 
>> commitment to be flexible with experimenting with different approaches and 
>> the understanding that it will take some trial and error before finding 
>> the right tools and techniques.   Right now, I don't think there is any 
>> training program with this level of commitment to employing blind people 
>> in this capacity.
>> 
>> Julie
>> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
>> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
>> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
>> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
>> -----Original Message----- From: S L Johnson via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 3:37 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: S L Johnson
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Apprentice Instructor
>> 
>> Cindy:
>> 
>> I know we have blind people training their own dogs.  I think the issue 
>> with
>> the schools is that a blind person could not see to know what is happening
>> with the students and dogs in the street.  Just think of how many times a
>> trainer has to step in to rescue somebody when the dog is not paying
>> attention or the person is not following the dog correctly and is ready to
>> crash into something or end up out in traffic.  I know it has happened to 
>> me
>> a few times.  If a sighted instructor was not there I would have been
>> injured or hit by a car.  It does happen sometimes when a dog just decides
>> it does not want to work and is not safe.  The trainers are always 
>> watching
>> as we move around the building and when we are working our dogs out in the
>> street.  When a blind person is training their own dog they only have
>> themselves to worry about not an entire class of students.  As I said 
>> before
>> I think the schools should hire blind people to assist with training the
>> dogs and to help out on class along with the sighted instructors.
>> Unfortunately I do not think this will ever happen but we can always hope
>> things will change.
>> 
>> Sandra
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Ray via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 4:05 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Cindy Ray
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Apprentice Instructor
>> 
>> I have to wonder why an instructor could not be blind. After all, we have
>> blind people training their own dogs who are blind. What would the real
>> difference be? I used to feel as you do, Sandra, but I'm not so sure I do
>> now.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 3:00 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: S L Johnson <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Apprentice Instructor
>> 
>> Hello:
>> 
>> I do think the schools should consider hiring blind people as training
>> assistants.  However, a blind person could not be a full instructor.  The
>> instructors have to be able to see what is happening with the students and
>> dogs.  It would be a question of safety.
>> 
>> Sandra
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Buddy Brannan via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 3:32 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Buddy Brannan
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Apprentice Instructor
>> 
>> GDB had a pilot program that they set up to fail once. Otherwise, none of
>> the schools would even think about hiring a blind apprentice...they might
>> then have to think about graduating one to a full instructor,
>> and...well...we just can't have that.
>> 
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Mobile (preferred): (814) 431-0962
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194
>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 6, 2017, at 1:27 PM, Haylie Gallacher via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Anyone know if any of the guide dog schools have ever hired a a blind
>>> apprentice instructor?  If so, which ones?  I am thinking about being a
>>> guide dog instructor is why I am asking.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Haylieof
>>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> 
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