[NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs & Rent

Fri Jun 23 15:49:02 UTC 2017

Hi all,
I can see treating a retiring dog as a pet as when the dog is no longer
safe as a guide. Yeah, then it is a pet or demoted to pet status. You keep
it home and use a cane full time. If the dog is slowing down but is still
safe, you can still use it as a guide and it keeps its status as guide. You
just aren'T working it as much. AnyonE else just needs to know it is your
guide.

For me, I have used dogs less as it is nearing retirement. I may tell
people that it is getting close to retirement due to age. I never have more
than one dog. I still use the older dog until I know when I am going on
class. I look for a good home for it and the dog goes to its new home right
before I go to class. I have nevery been able to keep retired dogs and a
new guide dog. I can't  afford to properly care for more than one dog.

Lyn and Aristotle

On Jun 22, 2017 9:50 AM, "Gary Steeves via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> hi all
>
> this is an interesting tropic.  I would have to agree with Tracy.   if I
> had had  Bogart as a retired dog and a new guide dog I certainly had
> planned on working him from time to time on short little routes  to the
> mall a few blocks away as long as he was interested.  he wouldn't have been
> retired, just working from home. :).
>
> also, many of you have heard about British Columbia's new guide dog
> legislation.  one of the positive things that came out of that is that you
> now can keep your retired service dog even if you are living in a rental,
> or strata, that. doesn't allow pets or has size limitations.  that took
> away one worry.
>
> Gary
>
>
> On June 22, 2017 6:55:50 AM PDT, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >Hi Cindy.
> >I think you making too black-and-white a line between retired and not
> >retired.  If your dog can work occasionally, and is useful to you, then
> >that's fine.  People don't need to know he's retire or not.  He's
> >working as
> >a guide; he's a guide.
> >If you were renting in a place that didn't allow pets, that would be
> >more of
> >a grey area, but, if you're using him as a guide to go some place, that
> >business just needs to know he's a guide, which he is.
> >JMO.
> >Tracy
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
> >via
> >NAGDU
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:18 PM
> >To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >Cc: Cindy Ray
> >Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired
> >Dogs &
> >Rent
> >
> >I would have to agree with President Gwizdala on this semi-retired
> >business.
> >I had a dog who was retired once in about 2006. I retired him during my
> >first semester at the seminary. I missed him terribly. The school gave
> >me
> >permission to bring him back to stay at the school with me because he
> >had
> >been my companion. I kept him there the rest of the semester, but I
> >learned
> >some interesting and eye-opening things.
> >1) Since he was retired or even semi-retired, he wouldn't be going to
> >class
> >with me but, rather, would stay in my room. He was not destructive, but
> >this
> >fact alone had totally changed the relationship between him, me, and
> >the
> >school for that matter.
> >
> >2) If I went to someone's room/apartment because they had a
> >get-together or
> >a party, they could ask me not to bring him, and I would need to
> >comply. It
> >would have been wrong for me to argue this point.
> >
> >3) There was a pet policy at my seminary. There was a weight limit, and
> >all
> >of the pets had to live in a certain building. I did not live in that
> >building, and my dog was larger than the pet limit by spades no matter
> >where
> >we stayed.
> >
> >4) People were staying there at the school during the week; then many
> >went
> >home for the weekend. They missed their pets that couldn't come along,
> >and
> >there was a little sense of unfairness about it. It occurred to me just
> >how
> >unfair it was that my dog was there. He wasn't a guide anymore, he was
> >a
> >pet. So I made the decision to leave him at home after about six weeks.
> >It
> >had helped me through a difficult time, but I had risked my
> >relationships
> >with many I think.
> >
> >My current dog is actually retired. One day I had him work me to the
> >dentist, but I didn't hide the fact that he was actually retired. He
> >was in
> >harness doing what he was supposed to do. I used him because with large
> >tree
> >equipment outside I couldn't hear if there was traffic or not. I'm not
> >sure
> >it was ethical for me to do this; I did not lie about who he was, and
> >the
> >dentist regarded him as a guide. This is not something I would make a
> >practice of because I think he either is retired or he isn't. If I were
> >in a
> >situation where pet deposits were required,  I would pay it because
> >Fisher
> >is now a pet. Carrying that further, I suppose I would have to find a
> >new
> >place to live if there was a size limit on the pet or the pet wasn't
> >allowed
> >at all, though if I were in a lease situation I might negotiate a
> >satisfactory way to deal with the remainder of the lease, depending on
> >the
> >terms of it.
> >
> >Cindy Lou Ray
> >cindyray at gmail.com
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU
> >President
> >via NAGDU
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:10 PM
> >To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> ><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >Cc: NAGDU President <blind411 at verizon.net>
> >Subject: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs
> >&
> >Rent
> >
> >       In graduate school I was required to take a course in ethics. The
> >professor defined ethics as "compliance with the unenforceable". I
> >believe
> >this is as much a matter of ethics as it is a matter of law. In my
> >opinion,
> >taking advantage of the law by calling a retired service dog "semi
> >retired"
> >is unethical, as well as illegal.  How is this different than those who
> >take
> >advantage of the law that provides us access to places of public
> >accommodation with our service dog by misrepresenting their pet as a
> >service
> >dog? It is no different when we call our retired service dog semi
> >retired in
> >order to avoid paying a pet deposit. Folks, we can't have it both ways!
> >We
> >cannot ask for those who misrepresent their pets as service dogs to not
> >do
> >so if we are willing to act the same way.
> >
> >       I also want to remind everyone that this list is publicly archived
> >on the internet. What you say and how you represent yourself is here
> >for the
> >entire world to read. If you are willing to compromise your integrity
> >by
> >suggesting someone act in a manner contrary to ethics and law, you are
> >telling the world a lot about yourself. Is this the way you want others
> >to
> >think of you?
> >Marion Gwizdala, President
> >National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National
> >Federation of
> >the Blind
> >(813) 626-2789
> >President at NAGDU.ORG
> >
> >
> >The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
> >characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> >expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind
> >people
> >and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what
> >holds
> >you back.
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan
> >Gallacher
> >via NAGDU
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:04 PM
> >To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >Cc: Jordan Gallacher
> >Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Retired Dogs & Rent
> >
> >Here is what my instructor said about that.  Semi retire the dog since
> >you
> >can have two service animals with no problems.  That is what I would
> >do.
> >Jordan
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nancy
> >VanderBrink
> >via NAGDU
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 4:32 PM
> >To: Nancy VanderBrink via Nagdu
> >Cc: Nancy VanderBrink
> >Subject: [NAGDU] Retired Dogs & Rent
> >
> >Hey folks,
> >So a question was asked on a group i follow and wondered what you guys
> >knew.
> >
> >So, if you're renting either a house or apartment with your current
> >guide.
> >I'm going to assume you're not paying a pet fee.
> >
> >Folks that have done this before, after you retire your guide; do you
> >have
> >to pay a pet fee if you keep your guide, do you have to then pay a pet
> >fee?
> >
> >Just curious to know what you've experienced.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Nancy
> >
> >Please forgive the typos as this message was most likely generated
> >using
> >voice dictation Nancy Irwin
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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> jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
> >m
> >
> >
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> rainshadowmusic%40shaw.ca
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> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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