[NAGDU] time to think about which guide dog school to apply to

Fri May 19 22:17:30 UTC 2017

This is a very personal decision. Marion, you said exactly what I
would have said. Ownership policy was one of the most important
deciding factors when I was choosing a program because I knew that a
school's ownership policy would reflect its overall philosophy about
blindness. In addition to granting full ownership immediately after
graduation. I also appreciate that TSE charges a small fee for the dog
and training...

Of course, I recommend TSE because I had an excellent experience there
and now own a wonderful dog. Training was very personalized to my
needs, and I felt that we were all treated with dignity and respect.
Follow-up visits are not required, but one may request them anytime;
one may also talk with instructors over the phone about any issues or
questions. I have always felt, when talking or working with
instructors, that their goals are the same as mine: to create and
refine the best partnership possible between my dog and myself. Having
said this, I have never gotten any training from other schools, so I
cannot say that TSE is better, and though it may be the best school
for me, it may not be for you and your needs.<div
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On 5/19/17, NAGDU President via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 	It is my personal opinion that any sort of probationary period is
> paternalistic and is not conducive to the creation of a sound team. Most
> training issues reveal themselves early in the partnership and, if a
> consumer fears they will be seen as incompetent and, as the result, are
> afraid the program will remove the dog for such a reason, those consumers
> will be hesitant to ask for help when they really need it. This will lead
> to
> minor issues becoming major ones.
>
> 	I have heard the arguments that training programs would not do such
> a thing. I have two responses to that. Firstly, if you think they would
> not,
> I hav heard from those who have had dogs removed without cause. Secondly,
> even if they would not, the mere perception they would do so is enough to
> cause hesitation on the part of a consumer to not seek the sort of help
> mentioned earlier.
>
> 	Finally, I will say that there is no evidence that the paternalistic
> practice of probation is a better policy; however, while serving on
> Southeastern Guide Dogs Graduate Advisory Council, the question was asked
> if
> there was hesitancy contacting the training program due to fear over
> removal
> of the dog and the council agreed unanimously it was an issue. It is my
> opinion that those programs which transfer ownership upon completion of
> training are more aligned with the NFB philosophy that the barriers we face
> are not the result of our blindness but the low expectations society has
> for
> us. If guide dog training programs have such low expectations of us that
> they believe we need to prove we are capable, their fundamental belief is
> that we are not! Why else is there such a policy? I also find it
> interesting
> that many programs assert their dogs give us dignity yet treat us in such
> an
> undignified manner. I believe it is due time for those programs that
> require
> a probationary period to join us in our awareness that blindness is not the
> obstacle; the obstacle is their low expectation of the blind!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
> National Federation of the Blind
> (813) 626-2789
> President at NAGDU.ORG
>
>
> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people
> and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds
> you back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Howard J. Levine
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:58 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Howard J. Levine
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] time to think about which guide dog school to apply to
>
> Hi again I just talked to the school and if you are in goodstanding then
> after 2 years you can get title ownership of your dog.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brenda via NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 1:08 PM
> To: Howard J. Levine via NAGDU
> Cc: Brenda
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] time to think about which guide dog school to apply to
>
> Howard, I just spoke to their admissionsdepartmentyesterday and was told
> they do not grant ownership at all.  I even said I heard it was after 1
> year
> and was told no.
> Brenda
>
> On 5/19/2017 12:49 PM, Howard J. Levine via NAGDU wrote:
>> That is not True, GEB does gibe ownership it is after some time. This
>> is from Howard Guide dog Rhett.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brenda via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 12:37 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Brenda
>> Subject: [NAGDU] time to think about which guide dog school to apply
>> to
>>
>> Hello List,
>>
>> this week my pet dog Sadie passed over the rainbow bridge.  She was 15
>> years old and we had a wonderful life together. She is playing with
>> her cat sisters who have gone before her. I will miss her and am still
>> sad, but she is no longer suffering so I'm at peace.
>>
>> As my vision waned over the years, I became more and more interested
>> in getting a guide dog, but sadie who was an APL rescue didn't like other
> dogs.
>> I did get O&m training to maintain my independence and have been using
>> my skills and now I am ready to apply for a guide.
>>
>> I have been surfing the guide dog school websites and reading posts
>> from here and elsewhere about different guide dog schools and am now
>> trying to sort things out.
>>
>> Several schools at the top of my list do not grant full ownership.
>> This concerns me, but other than that I like the schools.  One school
>> that does grant ownership is in California.  I live in Ohio and don't
>> want to be on a plane for a long time.  that may be silly, but I can't
>> get
> over it.
>>
>> So...I would appreciate Listers input/opinions/guidance/thoughts on my
>> situation.
>>
>> the school I really like is Guiding eyes for the Blind.  They do not
>> grant ownership at all, but I have not heard/read  anything negative
>> about them. I doubt they are in business to develop teams only to take
>> the
> dog away.
>>
>> My intent is not to debate ownership issues.  I want to learn Listers'
>> experiences with nonownership schools with the focus on GEB.
>>
>> Thanks for any input.
>>
>> Brenda
>>
>>
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