[NAGDU] religious organizations and guide dogs
S L Johnson
SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
Mon Oct 2 23:56:30 UTC 2017
Rachel and others:
Pardon me for asking but, what is so sacred that a guide or service dog
could not be present? These church authorities should remember who created
dogs and what is God spelled backward. I do not to offend anyone, I really
want to learn. I have spent my professional musician life in many kinds of
religious services and ceremonies. Years ago I did attend church with a
Mormon friend. Both she and I used guide dogs. Both dogs were warmly
welcomed in the service and nobody made any objections when we went up on
the choir loft to sing. Both of our dogs along with several others were
present at her wedding. I know of two Jewish Cantors who had their dogs
with them even during the High Holy Day services. I did a concert with one
of them and both she and I had our guide dogs with us. I once served as
cantor for several years at a catholic church and my dog was welcome on the
platform next to the priest even for weddings and funerals. That priest
always made sure to stop and bless Pattie as she guided me down the isle
during the processional and recessional hymns. In catholic, episcopal and
Lutheran churches I and my dog have walked down the center isle right behind
the clergy, acolytes, cross barer and other dignitaries. I So once again I
ask, why should the temple object to service dogs? Help educate all of us
so we will better understand why they have made this decision.
Sandra
SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Grider via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 6:40 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Rachel Grider
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] religious organizations and guide dogs
Hi, Guys:
Just to clarify: I am also a member of The LDS church and attend the temple
regularly. The reason for The policy prohibiting service dogs from the
temple has to do with the sacred nature of the temple and what goes on
there. I have great love and respect for my church leaders: having said
this, I would like to see more of an awareness from them towards members
with disabilities and their specific needs. Though I do agree that dogs
should not be in the temple, I believe that there should be a place set
aside where they can stay in their kennel while we are inside - perhaps just
inside the temple. While some temple presidents do accommodate this, it is
not part of the overall accommodations, so it is ultimately left up to
individual temple presidents.
Please understand that this is not active discrimination; it is simply a
lack of understanding. I believe that as a member of the church, it is my
job to help educate church leaders, with love and understanding, about the
rule of our dogs so that they might change the policy to include
accommodations for them while we are in the temple.
I will say it again that I love my church leaders, and I know that
everything that they do in this regard is done to preserve the sacredness of
the temple, which is also very important to me.
I hope you guys have a great day!
Rachel
> On Oct 2, 2017, at 14:49, Dan Weiner via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> i don't really care if I know or not about the temple, our guide dogs are
> our mobility aids and therefore I think it's appropriate for us to make
> the decision, not a church, but of course you won't agree. But we'll agree
> to disagree.
>
>
>
>
>> On 10/2/2017 5:15 PM, Sunshine via NAGDU wrote:
>> I can understand the view for a church service, but going to the Temple
>> is much more than that. Think as you will, but you don't know enough
>> about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any member I've
>> met who has service dogs told me that they do not think it's appropriate
>> to take our dogs with us under the circumstances. I didn't understand
>> that view until I received my Temple recommend and went to The Temple.
>> Smiles!'
>>
>>
>>
>> Sunshine and
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dan Weiner via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: Sunshine via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Monday, October 2, 2017 1:14 pm
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] religious organizations and guide dogs
>>
>>>
>>> one thing is to have most people feel that they shouldn't bring there
>>> dog guides or that they don't want to bring them and another thing is to
>>> prohibit bringing a guide dog. Sorry guys, but if every time there's
>>> some access issues we make excuses for it things won't get better.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 10/2/2017 2:19 PM, Sunshine via NAGDU wrote:
>>>> The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints does allow dogs in the
>>>> meeting houses. As far as the temple is concerned, most people I know
>>>> feel as I do - there's a lot of moving around, people coming from many
>>>> different directions and we just don't feel we'd take our dogs to the
>>>> Temple even if we could. I don't want my dog stressed. Most people will
>>>> ride with others and, thus, can seek assistance. In any case, I never
>>>> considered leaving my dog at home being a problem. I've always been
>>>> taught that there should be times when we leave our dogs at home so a
>>>> visit to the Temple every once in a while is a great time. HTH!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sunshine and
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Tara Briggs via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Date: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:49 am
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] religious organizations and guide dogs
>>>>
>>>>> But what about other churches? Does anybody know what other churches
>>>>> policies are about service animals?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 29, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Dan Weiner via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks I couldn't remember what it was called, the temple, sorry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dam
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/29/2017 1:15 PM, Yiska via NAGDU wrote:
>>>>>>> I could take my guide dog to the weekly church services but not into
>>>>>>> > the temple. This was about 10 years and now I don't practice so I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>> unsure. Yiska > > On Sep 29, 2017 10:58, "Dan Weiner via NAGDU"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> > wrote: > >> I have been led to believe that the
>>>>>>> LDS church doesn't allow guide >> dogs in their tabernacle. When I
>>>>>>> worked in Maryland a co-worker out >> of the blue walked up to me
>>>>>>> and said "is thee some place that guide >> dogs can stay when they
>>>>>>> can't accompany their owner"? not really >> knowing what the reason
>>>>>>> for this was I gave a non-committal answer, >> it turned out one of
>>>>>>> this lady's relatives wanted to go to a Mormon >> not sure i if it
>>>>>>> was a church or meeting place or temple or what, >> my apologies, in
>>>>>>> Washington, and they told them the guide dog >> wouldn't be welcome
>>>>>>> that in quotes "it would disturb the peace and >> serenity of the
>>>>>>> ceremony" I'm quoiting, I'm not trying to bash any >> religion. So I
>>>>>>> answered my colleague something disparaging about >> religion in
>>>>>>> general which I won't write here, oh heck, I'll write >> it-lol I
>>>>>>> said that religion is suppose d to preach loving thy >> neighbor as
>>>>>>> your brother and that that's fine apparently unless >> you have a
>>>>>>> guide dog. But anyway, so I believe there is a policy, >> I'm sure
>>>>>>> other religious groups have similar strictures. >> >> >> Dan the
>>>>>>> man, Parker the hound dog >> >> >> >> On 9/29/2017 7:23 AM, Star
>>>>>>> Gazer via NAGDU wrote: >> >>> I checked Tara, and unfortunately you
>>>>>>> are correct, the LDS web >>> site does have this policy, plain as
>>>>>>> day on their web site. I am >>> truly sorry. I was really hoping you
>>>>>>> had a dimwit usher. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: NAGDU
>>>>>>> >>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs via
>>>>>>> >>> NAGDU Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:35 PM To: NAGDU >>>
>>>>>>> Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users >>>
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> Cc: Tara Briggs <thflute at gmail.com> Subject: >>>
>>>>>>> Re: [NAGDU] Forwarded Article: This able-bodied dog lover makes >>>
>>>>>>> a great case against faking service dogs >>> >>> Interesting. But
>>>>>>> can you make the argument that church meetings >>> are open to the
>>>>>>> public and the religious exemption does apply >>> there. For
>>>>>>> example, even though the public can walk into a church >>> for any
>>>>>>> service. Can't the church exclude say blind people if >>> they want
>>>>>>> to? Anyway, in this case, we had to go onto the >>> Internet and get
>>>>>>> tickets. That's what a friend of mine did and >>> she invited us to
>>>>>>> come. The tickets were free but you did have >>> to get them in
>>>>>>> order to get a seat. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 28,
>>>>>>> 2017, at 8:23 PM, David via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> >>> wrote: >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> If the concert is open to the public, the church exception does
>>>>>>> >>>> not apply. >>>> >>>> ininDavid and Claire Rose in Clearwater,
>>>>>>> FL* >>>> *david at bakerinet.com* >>>> >>>>> On 9/28/2017 7:53 PM, Star
>>>>>>> Gazer via NAGDU wrote: Even when >>>>> they are open to the public?
>>>>>>> We have a meeting house (Mormon >>>>> word for church building) that
>>>>>>> is open to >>>>> >>>> the public for elections, i.e. it is a voting
>>>>>>> poll. There is no >>>> way they >>> could or should restrict someone
>>>>>>> from going to the voting poll >>> with a guide or service dog. >>>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.avg.com >>>>
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