[NAGDU] Let's Discuss a Real Advocacy Case
Julie McGinnity
kaybaycar at gmail.com
Tue Mar 6 07:04:10 UTC 2018
Hi all,
I did some searching and read the documents Marion provided. It seems
to me that we are dealing with a title II concern, since title II
covers state and local governments.
This is why it's good to remind everyone that we're not lawyers and
that any advice we give should not be construed as official legal
advice. I'm not 100% sure of what I'm writing here but want to give
it a shot.
Minature horses are specifically mentioned at the end of these
implementing regulations. The requirements are a little different for
them than they are for service dogs. The public entity shall make
reasonable modifications to practices, policies, and procedures to
permit the use of miniature horses as service animals. All the other
regulations in that section also apply to miniature horses. However,
the size of the horse can matter. The public entity can actually
count the size and weight of the mini horse as a factor when they are
determining whether to modify their policies for this person. In my
not-so-expert opinion, this individual shouldn't have a problem if the
horse is the size of a large dog.
I also looked at the service animal FAQ for the ADA. Municipalities
are not allowed to discriminate based on the breed of dog. This might
be a stretch, since miniature horses have their own section and are
obviously not dogs, but the same kind of law is in question here.
Horses are not allowed in the county based on their ordinances.
Minature horses are covered under the ADA. Therefore, there should be
an exception granted to their county ordinances for this person so
that she or he can have the miniature horse as a service animal.
FAQ that includes info on miniature horses:
https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
If I was the person in question, I would look up the regulations for
my county. When I did this for Baltimore County, I found that two
miniature horses are actually allowed per acre of land not being used
for agriculture purposes. Only one large horse is allowed per acre
according to this website. I am no expert and don't live here. These
regulations are difficult to follow, so I may be understanding things
wrong. But I'd like to point out that it's always good to double
check and read up on the relevant laws. O, one more thing... These
zoning regulations define miniature horses as small livestock. Under
the ADA this miniature horse is no more a piece of livestock than our
dogs are pets.
Here's the Baltimore county site:
https://www.ecode360.com/12100705?highlight=horses#12100705
That's what I've got for now. At least a jumping-off point. I could
be completely on the wrong track, but what have I got to lose, right?
:)
Julie<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br />
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On 3/5/18, Michael Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Thanks, but you never know. Should you visit the U.S.. you may wish to know
> local laws. However, I understand your position.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Roger Newell via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 9:10 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Roger Newell <inscriptioelectronicaaustralia at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Let's Discuss a Real Advocacy Case
>
> I can defend myself here by saying that, as an international reader on this
> list, it will likely not benefit me to become familiar with another
> country's legislation.
>
> On 3/6/18, Michael Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Actually, using a miniature horse as a guide is not necessarily as
>> complicated as you make it out to be. Anne on this list can best
>> address this as she uses a miniature horse she trained. However, the
>> laws do exist that permit using miniature horses and, given the track
> record, rightly so.
>> The municipality needs to learn the law which is pretty clear.
>>
>> What Marion asked is for us to learn and know the laws. He challenged
>> us to do the research, something we all should do so we can speak
>> intelligently about the subject. I would say that for those who said
>> that they didn't have time to look up the citations, sure you do have
>> the time. Whether a dog or a horse we all should know ALL aspects of
>> the law. Knowledge is power. Don't just rely on others, know for
>> yourself.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>> Vice President, NAGDU
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of S L Johnson via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 11:59 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: S L Johnson <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Let's Discuss a Real Advocacy Case
>>
>> Marion:
>>
>> It is no wonder that the animal control and municipality are confused.
>> Most
>> of them do not even understand the laws for guide dogs. I do not
>> agree with using mini horses as guides but I respect the rights of
>> others to do it if they want. I have heard of miniature horses being
>> used for emotional and physical disabilities However, you have to
>> consider that it is a horse so therefore it requires the proper
>> structure and pasture land for grazing and exercise. Most of the
>> people using mini horses do live out in the country where there is
>> plenty of land. Living within town limits does force a person to have
>> the proper accommodations for their animal whether or not it is a
>> service animal. This person might consider seeking some legal
>> expertise from an attorney as well as someone
>> who is an expert on the care of the miniature horse. All local, state
> and
>> federal regulations and laws need to be considered in this case. This
>> situation is dealing with the municipality claiming that they do not
>> have the proper amount of land to accommodate the miniature horse.
>> That is complicated by the fact that this is a service animal. It is
>> possible that there are no laws specific enough to deal with this
> combination of facts.
>> The municipality is only doing their job by ensuring that all animals
>> are taken care of properly and that includes service animals. We all
>> know this because we still have access issues with our guide dogs.
>> The laws need to catch up with us. Miniature horses are not very
>> common so the laws have not caught up with the current trends in
>> service animals. In my internet search I have not found any
>> information to clarify this issue. However, if this trend of using
>> miniature horses are going to be used as service animals it is a good
>> idea for all mini horse handlers as well as NAGDU to get involved so
>> that maybe new regulations and laws can be developed. It might be
>> necessary for new legeslation to be passed to resolve this issue.
>>
>> ------Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU President via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 9:27 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: NAGDU President
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Let's Discuss a Real Advocacy Case
>>
>> Cindy,
>>
>> When we receive calls from those asking us for our assistance,the
>> approach of those who staff the hotline is to first offer guidance to
>> the individual to help them be their own advocate. This goes a long
>> way to empowering the individual to do so in other cases, as well. As
>> service animal users, I believe we have the responsibility to
>> ourselves and our colleagues to help the public understand these
>> issues. This understanding helps us be better self-advocates and will,
>> in the long run, make our ways smoother in the future, if not for
>> ourselves directly but for those who will come behind us!
>>
>> This case has applications beyond the specifics of this one incident.
>> Understanding this will help us be more informed and better members of
>> the NFB and NAGDU!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National
>> Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789
>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>> Visit our website
>> Follow us on Twitter
>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
>> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind
>> people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is
>> not what holds you back.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 8:54 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Cindy Ray
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Let's Discuss a Real Advocacy Case
>>
>> People, Marion is asking us to do this that we might become more
>> familiar with the law and so that we can have an intelligent,
>> well-thought out discussion on the topic. I hope that some of us will
>> take time out of our busy lives to look up the information. The guide
>> horse has been controversial, so it would be well for us to know what
>> the conclusions have been in the end. I will look it up soon; maybe
>> not today. But I think it is important for us to have this discussion.
>> Cindy Lou Ray, Moderator
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of sonfire11--- via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 5:14 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: sonfire11 at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Let's Discuss a Real Advocacy Case
>>
>> I don't have time for citations either. However, try looking something
>> up in the fair housing act. It might give some recourse on the
>> subject.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Roger Newell via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2018 11:29 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Roger Newell <inscriptioelectronicaaustralia at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Let's Discuss a Real Advocacy Case
>>
>> I do not have the time to find citations, but I will simply state the
>> following:
>>
>> Guide dogs are permitted in many places where dogs who are not service
>> animals are not allowed. This is due to the guide dog being a service
>> animal. It would seem to me that a similar situation would exist for a
>> horse that is acting as a service animal.
>>
>> On 3/5/18, NAGDU President via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As members of the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users, we are often asked to weigh in on advocacy issues that have a
>>> real effect on individual's ability to live the life they want. The
>>> recent issue with Delta Airlines is a demonstration of why the
>>> National Federation of the Blind chose to charter the National
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users to act as an authoritative,
>>> representative voice of the nation's guide dog users.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I recently had the opportunity to help another member
>>> who needed immediate assistance. This member lives in Baltimore
>>> County, Maryland and uses a miniature guide horse. Baltimore County
>>> has a zoning ordinance that prohibits anyone with less than 2 acres
>>> to keep a horse. An animal control officer was at this person's home
>>> to investigate a complaint that the individual was keeping a horse on
>>> their property of less than 2 acres.
>>> The animal control officer was advised that the horse was a service
>>> animal but the officer was unsure of what, if any, bearing this had
>>> on the
>> issue.
>>> If you were asked to comment on this issue, what would be your guidance.
>>> Please take the time to research this question and provide source
>>> citations for your position.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>> (813) 626-2789
>>>
>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>
>>> Visit our website <http://nagdu.org/>
>>>
>>> Follow us on Twitter <http://twitter.com/nagdu>
>>>
>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
>>> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind
>>> people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is
>>> not what holds you back.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> i
>>> caaustralia%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
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>
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--
Julie A. McGinnity
President, National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division,
Second Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri
"For we walk by faith, not by sight"
2 Cor. 7
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