[NAGDU] GDB training methods

Thu Aug 22 21:51:17 UTC 2019

My dogs are from GDF, not GDB, but both programs have extremely similar training methods. The goal of both programs in terms of training is not to eliminate corrections but rather to limit their use as much as possible for any given dog. I'm personally not a fan of extremely correction based training. I am not opposed to corrections at all, but I do think the trainers who use more positive methods need to put more thought into how to get a dog to understand what they want, and to encourage a dog to think outside the box without fear of negative consequences.  That being said most dogs with the correct temperament to be service dogs are not going to do well with absolutely no corrections ever. There are of course exceptions to this which is totally fine, but it would be difficult to breed dogs that never need leash corrections but also can handle the pressure of guide work and the wide variety of environments they need to work calmly in.
With both programs, you will learn appropriate verbal corrections, leash cues, food rewards, verbal praise, correct use of a headcollar, clicker, time outs, and leash corrections. The standard collar is the martingale rather than the slip chain, though it's possible an individual dog may need a different type of collar. 
I personally would never be able to get away with using no corrections at all with either of my guides. They need more handling or they will take advantage. I do however limit corrections as much as I can, but using them as just one tool in the toolbox. 
Dknielle, Thai, and Jackie 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2019, at 5:04 PM, Yiska via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I have personally seen the negative effects of leash corrections on an
> overdistracted dog.  His view of dogs went from excited want to play to
> scared and refusing to work.  Increasing corection strength didn't seem to
> help and made us both stressed.  It is good to know GDB is slowly getting
> away from leash corrections but sad it is so slow.
> Yiska
> 
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:48 PM Rebecca Ilniski via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> I haven't had to use many leash corrections with my guides from GDB
>> either. I have a confident, but mellow guy who enjoys his work. We've been
>> home for about a little over two weeks now and his house manners and
>> guidework are pheomenal! I work with students who are blind and are from
>> various cultures so I needed a dog who settles well but yet can deal with
>> the craziness of my city and that's what I got. I don't care for leash
>> corrections either as not only public perception but with balance and
>> vertigo issues I always need a dog who is easy to manage. It's a hard combo
>> but they are definitely out there.
>> 
>> Rebecca and Marvin
>> email: rilniski at gmail.com
>> 
>> On Aug 22, 2019, at 4:23 PM, JLM via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi folks:
>> 
>> I am a 3rd time GDB grad, and one of the two aspects of why I use GDB is
>> their science-based training methods. The training staff knows I DO NOT use
>> leash corrections on my dogs and know I will only exclusively positive
>> methods and ignoring of all negative behavior.
>> 
>> GDB is SLOWLY moving away, but not fast enough, from leash corrections. It
>> is the public image why I won't use it either.
>> 
>> I will use a time-out method, but include a "watch me" command if and when
>> my dog is distracted. My current guide gets slightly distracted by some
>> things, so I prefer this method. She is an easy to control sweetheart. None
>> of my previous dogs, except my first dog from a Canadian school, required
>> leash corrections. I work in an organization where public perception is a
>> HUGE deal in my life so I prefer a dog that doesn't require this and is
>> exclusively clicker/treat/praise trained, which I got. It took some
>> confidence building on my girl's part to become a team (we came home in
>> May) but I am forever grateful for the extra training my dog receives and
>> how hard GDB works to find that perfect match that best fit my employment
>> needs, lifestyle, pace and health.
>> 
>> Just my two cents and own experience 😊
>> 
>> Jen and Parmesan
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber via NAGDU
>> Sent: August 22, 2019 1:15 PM
>> To: Seyoon Choi <blindinsider1 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>; NAGDU Mailing List, the National
>> Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] GDB training methods
>> 
>> Oh interesting. I don't think I would necessarily get away with that
>> without people thinking I am being too aggressive or something. Completely
>> unrelated, but the technique that I find which works for me and my dogs is
>> to immediately do five seconds of obedience or something when my dog is
>> distracting. This regains my focus on the dog, in the event the issue is
>> that I was unfocused. The dog regains focus on me, and on its work
>> *hopefully*. Then usually, we can get on our way. At times, corrections are
>> necessary, but since I started doing this with my first dog, I find
>> corrections are rare for me. I am now on my third dog, and still find the
>> above to be true. I realize that this may not work for many people, and for
>> some dogs. I can't imagine that pulling the dog by its leash towards me and
>> waiting for ten seconds to be necessarily helpful if the dog is being
>> distracted and pulling... I can see it leading to a fight. So instead, I
>> give my pup a command she has to obey. When she does, sometimes, especially
>> in the beginning or especially distracting situations, she gets a treat,
>> and always a scratch on the head. When we both are refocused, I pick up the
>> harness handle and charge on. This works for us.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 1:01 PM Seyoon Choi <blindinsider1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was taught to drop the harness handle, pick up the leash with both
>>> hands and bringing the dog close and wait 10 seconds until the dog
>>> stops pulling towards the distraction. This is only good though for
>>> certain types of distraction, I normally result to corrections.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Seyoon
>>> 
>>> On Aug 22, 2019, at 2:08 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What exactly is timeout?
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:44 AM Seyoon Choi via NAGDU
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I graduated from gdb with my first guide little over a week ago so
>>>> happy to answer this one. Yes, gdb does leash correction. Timeout is
>>>> our first method but they will have us correct them if the
>>>> distraction is intense, or people are trying to come for my dog for
>>>> instance and he begins to pull/jump on them.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> Seyoon
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 22, 2019, at 12:31 PM, Yiska via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello list,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am looking into schools as my 4th dog didn't work out.  What is
>>>>> GDB's view on corrections?  Do they do leash corrections?  They are
>>>>> promoting
>>>> to
>>>>> the world that they are an all positive school but their grad class
>>>>> lectures say they use corrections.  I figured I would here from
>>>>> grads themselves.  I am not opposed to redirecting.  Thanks for your
>> time.
>>>>> Yiska
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Nimer Jaber
>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> Best,
>> 
>> Nimer Jaber
>> 
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was addressed.
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