[NAGDU] [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog

Sun Sep 1 20:14:15 UTC 2019

I totally agree with Dave here. There have been many times throughout my over 30 years of owning a guide dog that I have had to use a cane. Those cane skills and my orientation skills allow me to be an excellent traveler with my guide dog. It does nothing but enhance my skills.

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> On Sep 1, 2019, at 1:50 PM, David Andrews via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> You said "I always do sighted guide except for O&M."  If you don't practice with the cane you will never be any good.  You may say, it doesn't matter since I intend to get a dog. I think the better you are with a cane -- the better you w2ill be with a dog!
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 06:18 PM 8/29/2019, you wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Thank you for your thoughts, I really appreaciate it.
>> I just wanted to clarify some things.
>> I'm waiting for my instructor to tell me that I'm ready for a guide dog, I
>> don't want to apply and then find out that I'm not ready for a guide dog.
>> My instructor wasn't doing an assessment, we've been having regular lessons
>> together for a while. I always do sighted guide except of course during O&M
>> lessons of course. I'm honestly fine with my pace, it's my instructor who
>> wants me to walk faster. I don't know how long my cane is; it's comfortable
>> for me to use though. I understand the O&M concepts, I've been getting
>> training for years. The 3 routes thing is from GDF not from my instructor.
>> Mike, I've done tones and tones of research to decide on GDF, and I'm not
>> going to apply to other schools just to apply to other schools. GDF is the
>> only one that appeals to me.  Hope this helps
>> Madison
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com [mailto:GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com]
>> Sent: August-29-19 5:40 PM
>> To: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The cane is their bread and butter.
>> 
>> I think it is good to have both skills. However, I am a really bad cane
>> traveler.
>> 
>> Give me a dog any day!
>> 
>> Truie
>> 
>> From: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com [mailto:GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 5:49 PM
>> To: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog
>> 
>> Hi Madison, Your instructor is, frankly, way off. First, people walk all
>> different speeds with their dogs-some extremely slow, some extremely fast
>> and most of us somewhere in between. Further more, a dog is not limited to
>> only one speed. Sometimes, I fly around with my dogs, almost at a fast jog
>> or slow run; sometimes, we walk like the old lady that I sometimes am. It
>> sounds like when you walk with a sighted person, you feel more confident vs.
>> when you walk by yourself. Therefore, it stands to reason that you have the
>> ability to walk faster, and you simply would do that once you trust your dog
>> and feel confident he/she can guide you as well, probably better, than these
>> sighted guides. Nevertheless, if you always walked at a very slow speed, or
>> a very fast one, dogs also walk at different speeds. My Radar and Chelsea
>> had two speeds: extremely fast or asleep. <LOL> I was young, energetic and a
>> little crazy and I flew right along with them.
>> 
>> Noah and Angel walked at a more reasonable pace and were usually steady, but
>> happy to speed up a bit if we needed too or slow down.
>> 
>> Cheddar loves to fly but is disciplined enough that he can slow it down when
>> need be.
>> 
>> As for applying to GDF or any other school, what are you waiting for?
>> You've been talking about this for several years now. You're not going to be
>> accepted at GDF or any other school the day your application hits their
>> desk-it takes time, perhaps another year or more to get into a school. I
>> would think you'd have more than enough time given that time-frame to
>> complete the three routes your mobility instructor deems to be so important.
>> 
>> Furthermore, your instructor is, obviously, pretty darn ignorant about what
>> a dog guide can do and so the school will be a better source of when you are
>> "ready" to begin guide dog work. Applicants have been told that they need
>> more work, to become more confident-whatever, and you'd not be the first or
>> last for that if, indeed, it happened.
>> 
>> It seems to me it's time to get serious about whether you really, really
>> want a dog guide or not. If not, that's fine; however, just make that
>> decision without all these excuses and delays.
>> 
>> Maybe spending a little more time with people who have and work dogs would
>> be helpful and a lot less time listening to some mobility instructor who,
>> apparently, slept right through the education, experience and training about
>> guide dogs. <sigh>
>> 
>> Historicly, and apparently still, O&M instructors have not been overly
>> enthusiastic about dog guide work. They learned the cane, seem to prefer the
>> cane and seem to endorse the cane over a dog guide. I'm not sure why this is
>> as they do receive dog guide instruction and education, and there is no
>> reason in the world an O&M can not work with a student using a dog but, for
>> whatever reason, this mentality remains.
>> 
>> Jessie L. Rayl, Ed.D., LPC
>> 
>> <mailto:Jrayl114 at comcast.net> Jrayl114 at comcast.net
>> 
>> FB: Eaglewings10
>> 
>> From: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com [mailto:GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 5:53 AM
>> To: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog
>> 
>> Hi Madison,
>> Just what do you think a guide dog is, if not a sighted guide?
>> The word guide should give you a clue.
>> 
>> Really, this is ridiculous, and I have to agree with David, perhaps your
>> continuing mobility training is doing nothing but fattening the instructor's
>> 
>> wallet.
>> 
>> Oh yes, it may be getting you out of the house and allowing you to become
>> familiar with the streets in your neighborhood, but you are learning those
>> routs with a cane, not a dog.
>> With a cane you tend to rely on land marks, things your cane hits along the
>> way.
>> A dog is going to take you around and past those landmarks treating them as
>> obstacles to be avoided.
>> 
>> As for your walking speed:
>> In my last class, I was first given a little female that I had to push down
>> the sidewalk, and even once drag across the street because she was just too
>> darn slow.
>> When the senior trainer asked me what I thought of her, my response was,
>> "She's a good dog, just not the right one for me."
>> I was allowed to do what I called test drive two other dogs.
>> The first one was faster than the female but when urged to get along and
>> move faster, the only thing that sped up was his tail wagging.
>> He was in permanent meander down the street mode.
>> When I told Baron "Forward" he picked right up, and I knew I was going for a
>> 
>> walk.
>> Halfway down the first block I said to the trainer, "Now there's the pull I
>> was looking for."
>> Not only was his pull just right, but I could feel every move he made as he
>> avoided things along the rout.
>> 
>> Some dogs walk faster than do others, just like people, and any school worth
>> 
>> their salt knows that and trains each dog accordingly.
>> 
>> Maybe you should spend more time walking with your instructor as the guide
>> instead of getting used to what's around you with a cane.
>> 
>> And what's this learning three routs about?
>> 
>> I'm just wondering about this entire set-up someone talked you into.
>> 
>> PJ.
>> 
>> ----Original Message-----
>> From: 'Madison Martin' maddymartin at mymts.net [GuideDogs]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:59 PM
>> To: friends at guidedogs.groups.io ; chat at guidedogusersinc.org ;
>> GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com ; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> 
>> Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> I just wanted to clearify something. I'm not actually currently applying to
>> GDF because I have to work more on my O&M before I can apply. That's what my
>> O&M instructor told me. I need to work mainly on my confidence and my pace,
>> I'm a slow walker (except when I'm walking sighted guide). My instructor
>> told me that my slow pace won't work with a guide dog. However, when my
>> instructor tells me that I'm ready (and once I have 3 routes) then I'm
>> deffenetly applying to GDF. I just thought that I should clearify things, in
>> case anyone thought that I am actually currently going through GDFs
>> application process.
>> Madison
> 
> 
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