[nfb-talk] nfb-talk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 15
Pat Gormley
kk3f at msn.com
Thu Jan 15 14:23:45 UTC 2009
You will lose traditional dvs but in fact you will have up to 6 possible
channels available to transmit dvs because digital signals have a narrower
footprint than traditional analog signals. There's a good summary in
category 1 option 11 of newsline to explain this in a little more depth. 73-
pat kk3f
----- Original Message -----
From: <nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org>
To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:29 AM
Subject: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 15
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Losing DVS (T. Joseph Carter)
> 2. Re: Losing DVS (T. Joseph Carter)
> 3. Re: Losing DVS (Ray Foret jr)
> 4. Re: Losing DVS (John G. Heim)
> 5. New THOUGHT PROVOKER #141- A New Era Coming (Robert Newman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:48:18 -0800
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
> To: Ray Foret jr <rforetjr at comcast.net>, NFB Talk Mailing List
> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <20090114224818.GD38101 at yumi.bluecherry.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Ray,
>
> You're wasting your breath on this score. The party line held by some
> organizations is that we oppose DVS, and anyone who stops supporting DVS
> does so because of us. You've been baited.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 03:50:39PM -0600, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>>With all due respect, sir, you are wrong. Before explaining why, let me
>>suggest that you correct your own misinformation by reading all we have to
>>say on the subject in the various Braille Monitors now available on our
>>site. Maybe instead of spouting off in impulsive and emotional irrational
>>anger, you should better aquaint yourself with what we really said first.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>
>>"Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years abroad you
>>come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your own
>>land"
>>George Seferis
>>
>>Phone or Fax::
>>+1 (985) 360-3375
>>e-mail:
>>rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>Skype Name:
>>barefootedray
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:49:14 -0800
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <20090114224914.GE38101 at yumi.bluecherry.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> They're saying the NFB has little or nothing to do with what WI Public
> Telivision does or does not provide in any feed.
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 05:27:35PM -0500, Joel Zimba wrote:
>> so they two of you are saying that WI Public Television is in fact
>> including the DVS signal in their digital feed?
>>
>> Joel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:04:57 -0600
> From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <6BB91AABDAE24C2996AF1CBB47D2BF8C at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> John, I am not going to engage in a protracted argument with you; and, I
> suspect, neither will any of us on this list. We know you too well.
> Attack, attack, attack and attack. That's all we ever get out of you. If
> you ever decide to put forth a reasonable case for any of your positions,
> perhaps you might find more people willing to consider what you have to
> say;
> but, so long as you attack for the sake of attacking, and so long as you
> try
> to stir the pot, (as you are now trying), you can just forget it. Looking
> for an argument from me? You won't get it; just the truth. That's why
> from
> this message on, I will say no more to you what so ever.
>
> And what was John's response to me? This:
>
> "Why is it that I'm the only one who EVER criticizes the NFB on this list?
>
> Apparently, the NFB is perfect. Holy cow, I even got barked at for daring
> to
> criticize Ray Kurzweil.
>
> Look, it's not *my* fault that the NFB has done things like trying to stop
> accessible money and DVS. We should *all* be ticked off about that. If
> you're not ticked off about it, that's your problem, not mine.
>
> The NFB's actions have made it more likely that I will lose DVS on my
> favorite PBS shows. Instead of siding with TV and movie producers, they
> should have been fighting for *MY* interests.
> Darn right I'm ticked off and rightfully so!"
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>
> "Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years abroad you
> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your own
> land"
> George Seferis
>
> Phone or Fax::
> +1 (985) 360-3375
> e-mail:
> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John G. Heim" <
> jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: "Ray Foret jr" <
> rforetjr at comcast.net
>>; "NFB Talk Mailing List"
> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>
> I know exactly what the NFB said:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/2002-November/000174.html
>
> The fact is that it's the NFB itself that seems to lack an understanding
> of
> the consequences of it's actions. We saw this in the accessible money
> issue
> and in regard to Microsoft's screen reader.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Foret jr" <
> rforetjr at comcast.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>
>> With all due respect, sir, you are wrong. Before explaining why, let me
>> suggest that you correct your own misinformation by reading all we have
>> to
>> say on the subject in the various Braille Monitors now available on our
>> site. Maybe instead of spouting off in impulsive and emotional
>> irrational
>> anger, you should better aquaint yourself with what we really said first.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>
>> "Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years abroad you
>> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your own
>> land"
>> George Seferis
>>
>> Phone or Fax::
>> +1 (985) 360-3375
>> e-mail:
>> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John G. Heim" <
> jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:41 PM
>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>
>>
>> As many of you probably know, DVS, Described Video Service, is available
>> on
>> several PBS programs. This includes Nova, The American Experience, and
>> Nature. Over the years I've grown quite fond of these programs. There are
>> few entertainment programs available on the radio. It's mostly talk and
>> music. But things designed for you to sit down and listen to for an hour
>> are
>> pretty rare.
>>
>> This is why I was dismayed to be told that Wisconsin Public Television is
>> not broadcasting the DVS signal in their digital broadcast. The analog
>> signal has DVS. The digital signal does not. Now, obviously, Wisconsin
>> Public Television bears the primary responsibility for this huge step
>> backward. But I also place some of the blame on the NFB. No one would
>> find
>> it acceptable if the transition to digital television had meant that deaf
>> people would lose their access to closed captioning. Closed captioning
>> has
>> become part of the fabric of our society and everyone takes it for
>> granted.
>> Why isn't DVS on that same level? Because the NFB opposed it.
>>
>> Thanks NFB.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:41 PM
> Subject: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>
>
> As many of you probably know, DVS, Described Video Service, is available
> on
> several PBS programs. This includes Nova, The American Experience, and
> Nature. Over the years I've grown quite fond of these programs. There are
> few entertainment programs available on the radio. It's mostly talk and
> music. But things designed for you to sit down and listen to for an hour
> are
> pretty rare.
>
> This is why I was dismayed to be told that Wisconsin Public Television is
> not broadcasting the DVS signal in their digital broadcast. The analog
> signal has DVS. The digital signal does not. Now, obviously, Wisconsin
> Public Television bears the primary responsibility for this huge step
> backward. But I also place some of the blame on the NFB. No one would find
> it acceptable if the transition to digital television had meant that deaf
> people would lose their access to closed captioning. Closed captioning has
> become part of the fabric of our society and everyone takes it for
> granted.
> Why isn't DVS on that same level? Because the NFB opposed it.
>
> Thanks NFB.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:12:29 -0600
> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
> To: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>, "NFB Talk Mailing List"
> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <669EFA906C9240A88755EB36180517AE at math.wisc.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I already did talk to the management at Wisconsin Public Television.
> There
> is no timeline for instituting DVS in the digital broadcast. They simply
> didn't bother to buy that equipment. Will that eventually? Maybe. Who
> knows?
>
> The point I'm making is that there's a reason that DVS is considered such
> marginal technology while closed captioning is not -- it's because it's
> not
> *required*. If it was required, more blind people would know about it and
> it
> and use it. Blind people are never going to start demanding DVS if they
> don't even know what it is. And how are they going to learn what it is if
> they can't even get it? Closed captioning is part of the fabric of our
> society (for lack of a better term). DVS could be too someday if the NFB
> stops opposing it.
>
> Look, these PBS shows are important. They help me stay connected with the
> rest of the world. Television itself, even sitcoms are important. The
> other
> day on NPR's "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" they compared our new Surgeon
> General, Sanjay Gupta to Dr. McDreamy. Dr. McDreamy is a character on a
> sitcom. I'm left out of the joke if I'm not listening to TV!
>
> We are marginalizing ourselves!We're isolating ourselves. Holy cow, if
> someone tried to isolate us the way we do it ourselves I for one would be
> outraged. But if it's the NFB doing it, everyone seems to think that's
> fine.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>
>
>>I think that depends on the station. Our local PBS station does in fact
>> include the SAP signal on their digital side; but not the analog. That's
>> a
>> station issue not an NFB issue. For that kind of thing, you'll need to
>> speak to the station manager. The engineers can only do what the
>> managers
>> tell them; so, I'd approach management with this one.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>
>> "Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years abroad you
>> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your own
>> land"
>> George Seferis
>>
>> Phone or Fax::
>> +1 (985) 360-3375
>> e-mail:
>> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joel Zimba" <jzimba at cavtel.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>
>>
>> so they two of you are saying that WI Public Television is in fact
>> including the DVS signal in their digital feed?
>>
>> Joel
>>
>>
>> Alan Wheeler wrote:
>>> Here here, I second what Ray says.
>>>
>>>
>>> In Christ,
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> +-+-+-
>>>
>>> He has made clear to you, O man, what is good; and what is desired
>>> from
>>> you by the Lord; only doing what is
>>> right, and loving mercy, and walking without pride before your God.
>>> Micah
>>> 6:8
>>> ~~~
>>> awheeler at neb.rr.com
>>> IM me at: outlaw-cowboy at live.com
>>> Skype: redwheel1
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 03:50
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> With all due respect, sir, you are wrong. Before explaining why, let
>>>> me
>>>> suggest that you correct your own misinformation by reading all we have
>>>> to
>>>> say on the subject in the various Braille Monitors now available on our
>>>> site. Maybe instead of spouting off in impulsive and emotional
>>>> irrational
>>>> anger, you should better aquaint yourself with what we really said
>>>> first.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>>
>>>> "Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years abroad
>>>> you
>>>> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your own
>>>> land"
>>>> George Seferis
>>>>
>>>> Phone or Fax::
>>>> +1 (985) 360-3375
>>>> e-mail:
>>>> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>>> Skype Name:
>>>> barefootedray
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:41 PM
>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As many of you probably know, DVS, Described Video Service, is
>>>> available
>>>> on
>>>> several PBS programs. This includes Nova, The American Experience, and
>>>> Nature. Over the years I've grown quite fond of these programs. There
>>>> are
>>>> few entertainment programs available on the radio. It's mostly talk and
>>>> music. But things designed for you to sit down and listen to for an
>>>> hour
>>>> are
>>>> pretty rare.
>>>>
>>>> This is why I was dismayed to be told that Wisconsin Public Television
>>>> is
>>>> not broadcasting the DVS signal in their digital broadcast. The analog
>>>> signal has DVS. The digital signal does not. Now, obviously, Wisconsin
>>>> Public Television bears the primary responsibility for this huge step
>>>> backward. But I also place some of the blame on the NFB. No one would
>>>> find
>>>> it acceptable if the transition to digital television had meant that
>>>> deaf
>>>> people would lose their access to closed captioning. Closed captioning
>>>> has
>>>> become part of the fabric of our society and everyone takes it for
>>>> granted.
>>>> Why isn't DVS on that same level? Because the NFB opposed it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks NFB.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1894 - Release Date:
>>> 1/14/2009
>>> 7:27 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:28:43 -0600
> From: "Robert Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> Subject: [nfb-talk] New THOUGHT PROVOKER #141- A New Era Coming
> To: "nfbtalk" <NFB-talk at NFBnet.org>
> Message-ID: <D87F0AE5A819447EBF56FCED62AEB52E at D78R0TG1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> NFBtalk members
> RE: A New Era Coming
>
> My Anthropology 101 class had a small section on the historical study of
> Mankind's response to disability. This TP is written to express that fact
> of
> our history and to ask about the future. Check it out! If you have not
> read
> the PROVOKER, it follows. Recall that I collect responses and post them
> upon my web site for all the WWW to read and learn from and that URL is-
> Http://thoughtprovoker.info <http://thoughtprovoker.info/> If you wish
> to
> receive THOUGHT PROVOKERS sent directly to you, just write me and ask, at-
> newmanrl at cox.net
>
> THOUGHT PROVOKER 141
> A New Era Coming
>
> Is there a new era coming in how the blind are treated? Blindness has been
> part of the human experience since Man was staring across the veldt for
> his
> next meal and studies of our history show that Man's reaction to blindness
> and disability in general has changed as we have. It has been determined
> that to date there have been four identifiable eras for how the blind have
> been treated. They are: 1. Extermination, 2. Persecution, 3.
> Institutionalization, and 4. Normalization.
>
> Each era's description below will provide a brief explanation of Mankind's
> status in relation to the world in which we lived and what society's
> general
> response was to blindness then. And yes, keep in mind that some aspects of
> each of the earlier eras linger into the next era and to the present day.
> After considering my explanations, we will see how you view my thought
> provoking question, is a new era coming and, if so, what are the specific
> indicators and what do you think this new era should be called?
>
> 1. The Era of Extermination. During Man's earliest times when human
> societies were just forming, we were still essentially hunters and
> gatherers. Life was tough; we lived from hand to mouth, each day required
> us
> to seek out food and shelter. Our resources were meager, all members of
> the
> group had to work together to insure the survival of the clan. When times
> got tough, the general rule was that the weak were exterminated to ensure
> the survival of the clan. The harsh measures spared no one. A child that
> was
> born blind was placed out on the hillside to die, exposed to the wild
> animals and weather. An adult that was injured or became blind through
> accident or aging would be expected to go into the wilderness and unburden
> the clan from caring for him or her.
>
> 2. The Era of Persecution. As Mankind became more
> sophisticated, we increased the group's resources to handle our basic
> needs.
> we developed agriculture to assure our food supply. We built structures to
> live in and gathered in cities for mutual assistance. We invented armies
> to
> protect us, educational systems to train us, medicine to care for our
> health. Life was easier and the blind were no longer seen as a threat to
> survival of the group, so they were allowed to live. However, because the
> blind were seen as weak, not capable of fully participating in the needs
> of
> the community, whether protecting it with arms, farming, or learning a
> skilled trade as a craftsman, the general rule for the blind was that you
> were allowed to live, but you had no rights. Many of the blind were
> outcasts, relegated to a life of begging on the streets, seen as objects
> of
> pity, sometimes made fun of and at times preyed upon.
>
> 3. The Era of Institutionalization. Later yet in time, when the
> world became more settled, societies more sophisticated, and resources
> more
> abundant, some of the blind were taken in and cared for by charitable
> organizations. These earliest facilities were established in the religious
> abbeys of the Middle Ages, being called alms houses or asylums for the
> blind. It was in these early establishments that the blind were first
> provided training in daily living skills and taught crafts, with their
> produce sold to pay their keep. Later, actual schools for the blind were
> established. It was in these schools that a few training opportunities for
> trades were offered as careers- piano tuning, rug weaving, and chair
> caning
> for the men, sewing, rug weaving, and homemaking for women.
>
> 4. The Era of Normalization. This is our present time. This era
> began and grew as consumer groups made up of the blind put forth their own
> agendas for improving all aspects of life for the blind. Most blind school
> children attend class right alongside their sighted peers. Most societies
> now sponsor rehabilitation services to assist blind persons from birth to
> their senior years, including opportunities during their working years to
> enter educational training programs for trades, professional careers,
> business, or homemaking. Now the blind are employed in a wide variety of
> job
> positions in all classes of employment. Yet, even with our modern
> adaptations and techniques to enable blind children and adults to be
> equally
> competitive with sighted members of our society, the blind as a group
> still
> receive uncomfortable acceptance by the sighted public and a high
> incidence
> of discrimination in employment.
>
> 5. Is there a new era coming?
>
>
>
> Robert Leslie Newman
> Email- newmanrl at cox.net
> THOUGHT PROVOKER Website-
> Http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of nfb-talk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 15
> ***************************************
>
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