[nfb-talk] The NFB itself (was: Losing DVS)

dewey bradley dewey.bradley at att.net
Fri Jan 16 23:54:15 UTC 2009 

my thoughts as well
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:03 AM
Subject: [nfb-talk] The NFB itself (was: Losing DVS)


> David,
>
> I've made this point so many times it's amazing to me that it still hasn't 
> sunk in... The NFB and it's leaders have taken several positions that by 
> all appearances seem to be counter to the best interests of blind people. 
> Yet almost all the members of this list just accept them.
>
> Before I'd accept Dr. Maurer's claim that accessible money is counter to 
> my best interests, I demand *proof*. Before I believe that I shouldn't be 
> upset about losing DVS, I want proof that the NFB acted in my best 
> interests when they aligned themselves with TV producers against the 
> regulations that mandated audio descriptions. Dr. Jernigan once wrote and 
> published an essay against the use of guide dogs claiming there was a 
> conspiracy of silence among sighted people to tolerate guide dogs. I want 
> to know why he thought that was so much more important than my safety and 
> my ability to go from point A to point B.
>
> These are perfectly reasonable questions. any sensible person would behave 
> exactly the way I am behaving. I expect the NFB to look out for my best 
> interests and when they do things that by all appearances are counter to 
> my best interests, I get upset. Why shouldn't I get upset?!
>
> Alan Wheeler keeps telling me that these are just my opinions. Yes, that's 
> true. But it is not just my opinion that accessible money would make it 
> easier for me to access my money, that DVS makes TV programs easier for me 
> to understand, and that my guide dog helps me get around. If the NFB and 
> it's leaders are going to take positions counter to my best interests, I 
> have every right to *demand* an explanation and to demand an explanation 
> that makes sense.
>
> s
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 3:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>
>
>> Dewey:
>>
>> You ask us to think for ourselves.  I would urge you to do the same. 
>> Your message seems to be saying that those of us who agree with NFB 
>> positions aren't thinking.  It isn't necessarily so.  I have thought out 
>> different topics and may well decide I completely agree with the NFB 
>> position.
>>
>> No one here should attack anybody else, whatever their position, but 
>> people who agree with the NFB aren't necessarily thoughtless as you 
>> imply.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 07:39 PM 1/15/2009, you wrote:
>>>I thought this list was so that we could talk about blindness?
>>>Some of us on here are members, but also have are own minds, I don't just 
>>>follow, I have my own mind, It's good to see that someone else does as 
>>>well.
>>>It's just like with the money thing, If It is made so that we can use It, 
>>>then the NFB will tell you that no one will hire us, and most of the 
>>>people on this list will just blindley follow.
>>>Why don't anyone use there own head any more?
>>>That's just like everyone voteing for who ever the media tells you to, 
>>>what is wrong with people.
>>>And I'm not trashing the NFB, I agree with most of the stuff they do, but 
>>>some things I don't, but I'm not going to just not use my own head, I 
>>>make up my own mind, I don't have someone els do It for me.
>>>It sounds like someone else on here is the same way, but everyone has to 
>>>atack them, no one wants to hear something that they disagree with, they 
>>>want to hear things that they agree with and nothing else. Blind people 
>>>jump my case because I report the bus drivers for not calling out the 
>>>stops, That makes blind people look bad I guess
>>>stop attacking people just because they don't follow you blindley.
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Wm. Ritchhart" 
>>><william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
>>>To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:17 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>
>>>
>>>>John,
>>>>
>>>>Instead of wining at us, go forth and campaign for what you believe you
>>>>need somewhere where it can possible do you some good.  Most of us do
>>>>not share your belief.  So we are not going to try to force people to do
>>>>what you want.
>>>>
>>>>You could, if you were so inclined, begin lobbying the government for
>>>>what you want.  Before you claim that you cannot manage it as one
>>>>person, you can align yourself with the ACB.  They are of the same mind
>>>>set as yourself on this issue.
>>>>
>>>>All your posts have done here is reinforce the belief held by most of us
>>>>that all you really want to do is complain about the NFB.  Take some
>>>>positive action for a change and maybe we will take you more seriously.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>THANKS, WILLIAM
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>On Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 12:43 PM
>>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>>
>>>>Exactly!
>>>>
>>>>The National Federation of the Blind -- note the word "blind" in the
>>>>name --
>>>>aligned itself withTV producers to overturn a FCC regulation that would
>>>>have
>>>>meant that I'd still have DVS.  I lost my access to DVS because the NFB
>>>>doesn't think it should be mandatory.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks NFB.
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Wheeler" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:17 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It's only your *OPINION* though that DVS should be mandatory.  You are
>>>>
>>>>>just mad because the NFB doesn't share your opinion.  Let's be honest
>>>>>about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In Christ,
>>>>>Alan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>+-+-+-
>>>>>
>>>>>   Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.
>>>>>Deuteronomy 6:4
>>>>>~~~
>>>>>awheeler at neb.rr.com
>>>>>IM me at: outlaw-cowboy at live.com
>>>>>Skype: redwheel1
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 08:47
>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Every time I criticize the NFB, all you people want to do is make it
>>>>>>about
>>>>>>me. Well, as usual, I'm not going to allow that. This is not about
>>>>me.  I
>>>>>>am
>>>>>>going to discuss the issue whether you like it or not!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I already provided a URL for a page that quotes the TV and movie
>>>>>>producers
>>>>>>using the NFB's own statements in it's legal argument.  These are
>>>>>>*facts*.
>>>>>>If you don't like them, too bad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The NFB made a mistake in opposing the mandate for DVS. If the
>>>>mandate
>>>>>>had
>>>>>>continued, I'd have DVS on my digital broadcast today. Now, the best
>>>>you
>>>>>>can
>>>>>>do is argue that the mandate would have been over turned regardless
>>>>of
>>>>>>what
>>>>>>the NFB did. Yet the fact remains that the NFB opposed the mandate
>>>>and
>>>>>>almost certainly contributed to it being over turned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" 
>>>>>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>>>>>To: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>; "NFB Talk Mailing List"
>>>>>><nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:48 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ray,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You're wasting your breath on this score.  The party line held by
>>>>some
>>>>>>>organizations is that we oppose DVS, and anyone who stops supporting
>>>>DVS
>>>>>>>does so because of us.  You've been baited.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Joseph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 03:50:39PM -0600, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>>>>>>>>With all due respect, sir, you are wrong.  Before explaining why,
>>>>let me
>>>>>>>>suggest that you correct your own misinformation by reading all we
>>>>have
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>say on the subject in the various Braille Monitors now available on
>>>>our
>>>>>>>>site.  Maybe instead of spouting off in impulsive and emotional
>>>>>>>>irrational
>>>>>>>>anger, you should better aquaint yourself with what we really said
>>>>>>>>first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Old friend, what are you looking for?  After those many years
>>>>abroad
>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your
>>>>own
>>>>>>>>land"
>>>>>>>>George Seferis
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Phone or Fax::
>>>>>>>>+1 (985) 360-3375
>>>>>>>>e-mail:
>>>>>>>>rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>>>>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>--------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
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>>>>1/15/2009
>>>>>7:46 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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