[nfb-talk] The NFB itself (was: Losing DVS)

David Andrews dandrews at visi.com
Sun Jan 18 05:05:11 UTC 2009

John:  You have made your point again and again -- and so have 
me.  You say we have taken positions that seem to be counter to the 
best interests of blind persons.  That is by your definition.  You 
are defining what is in our best interest, and we say that is your 
opinion, and we feel our best interest is otherwise.


At 09:03 AM 1/16/2009, you wrote:
>I've made this point so many times it's amazing to me that it still 
>hasn't sunk in... The NFB and it's leaders have taken several 
>positions that by all appearances seem to be counter to the best 
>interests of blind people.  Yet almost all the members of this list 
>just accept them.
>Before I'd accept Dr. Maurer's claim that accessible money is 
>counter to my best interests, I demand *proof*. Before I believe 
>that I shouldn't be upset about losing DVS, I want proof that the 
>NFB acted in my best interests when they aligned themselves with TV 
>producers against the regulations that mandated audio descriptions. 
>Dr. Jernigan once wrote and published an essay against the use of 
>guide dogs claiming there was a conspiracy of silence among sighted 
>people to tolerate guide dogs. I want to know why he thought that 
>was so much more important than my safety and my ability to go from 
>point A to point B.
>These are perfectly reasonable questions. any sensible person would 
>behave exactly the way I am behaving. I expect the NFB to look out 
>for my best interests and when they do things that by all 
>appearances are counter to my best interests, I get upset. Why 
>shouldn't I get upset?!
>Alan Wheeler keeps telling me that these are just my opinions. Yes, 
>that's true. But it is not just my opinion that accessible money 
>would make it easier for me to access my money, that DVS makes TV 
>programs easier for me to understand, and that my guide dog helps me 
>get around. If the NFB and it's leaders are going to take positions 
>counter to my best interests, I have every right to *demand* an 
>explanation and to demand an explanation that makes sense.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 3:38 AM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>You ask us to think for ourselves.  I would urge you to do the 
>>same.  Your message seems to be saying that those of us who agree 
>>with NFB positions aren't thinking.  It isn't necessarily so.  I 
>>have thought out different topics and may well decide I completely 
>>agree with the NFB position.
>>No one here should attack anybody else, whatever their position, 
>>but people who agree with the NFB aren't necessarily thoughtless as you imply.
>>At 07:39 PM 1/15/2009, you wrote:
>>>I thought this list was so that we could talk about blindness?
>>>Some of us on here are members, but also have are own minds, I 
>>>don't just follow, I have my own mind, It's good to see that 
>>>someone else does as well.
>>>It's just like with the money thing, If It is made so that we can 
>>>use It, then the NFB will tell you that no one will hire us, and 
>>>most of the people on this list will just blindley follow.
>>>Why don't anyone use there own head any more?
>>>That's just like everyone voteing for who ever the media tells you 
>>>to, what is wrong with people.
>>>And I'm not trashing the NFB, I agree with most of the stuff they 
>>>do, but some things I don't, but I'm not going to just not use my 
>>>own head, I make up my own mind, I don't have someone els do It for me.
>>>It sounds like someone else on here is the same way, but everyone 
>>>has to atack them, no one wants to hear something that they 
>>>disagree with, they want to hear things that they agree with and 
>>>nothing else. Blind people jump my case because I report the bus 
>>>drivers for not calling out the stops, That makes blind people look bad I guess
>>>stop attacking people just because they don't follow you blindley.
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Wm. Ritchhart" 
>>><william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
>>>To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:17 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>>Instead of wining at us, go forth and campaign for what you believe you
>>>>need somewhere where it can possible do you some good.  Most of us do
>>>>not share your belief.  So we are not going to try to force people to do
>>>>what you want.
>>>>You could, if you were so inclined, begin lobbying the government for
>>>>what you want.  Before you claim that you cannot manage it as one
>>>>person, you can align yourself with the ACB.  They are of the same mind
>>>>set as yourself on this issue.
>>>>All your posts have done here is reinforce the belief held by most of us
>>>>that all you really want to do is complain about the NFB.  Take some
>>>>positive action for a change and maybe we will take you more seriously.
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>On Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 12:43 PM
>>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>>The National Federation of the Blind -- note the word "blind" in the
>>>>name --
>>>>aligned itself withTV producers to overturn a FCC regulation that would
>>>>meant that I'd still have DVS.  I lost my access to DVS because the NFB
>>>>doesn't think it should be mandatory.
>>>>Thanks NFB.
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Wheeler" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:17 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>>>It's only your *OPINION* though that DVS should be mandatory.  You are
>>>>>just mad because the NFB doesn't share your opinion.  Let's be honest
>>>>>about it.
>>>>>In Christ,
>>>>>   Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.
>>>>>Deuteronomy 6:4
>>>>>awheeler at neb.rr.com
>>>>>IM me at: outlaw-cowboy at live.com
>>>>>Skype: redwheel1
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 08:47
>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>>>>Every time I criticize the NFB, all you people want to do is make it
>>>>>>me. Well, as usual, I'm not going to allow that. This is not about
>>>>me.  I
>>>>>>going to discuss the issue whether you like it or not!
>>>>>>I already provided a URL for a page that quotes the TV and movie
>>>>>>using the NFB's own statements in it's legal argument.  These are
>>>>>>If you don't like them, too bad.
>>>>>>The NFB made a mistake in opposing the mandate for DVS. If the
>>>>>>continued, I'd have DVS on my digital broadcast today. Now, the best
>>>>>>do is argue that the mandate would have been over turned regardless
>>>>>>the NFB did. Yet the fact remains that the NFB opposed the mandate
>>>>>>almost certainly contributed to it being over turned.
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" 
>>>>>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>>>>>To: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>; "NFB Talk Mailing List"
>>>>>><nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:48 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Losing DVS
>>>>>>>You're wasting your breath on this score.  The party line held by
>>>>>>>organizations is that we oppose DVS, and anyone who stops supporting
>>>>>>>does so because of us.  You've been baited.
>>>>>>>On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 03:50:39PM -0600, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>>>>>>>>With all due respect, sir, you are wrong.  Before explaining why,
>>>>let me
>>>>>>>>suggest that you correct your own misinformation by reading all we
>>>>>>>>say on the subject in the various Braille Monitors now available on
>>>>>>>>site.  Maybe instead of spouting off in impulsive and emotional
>>>>>>>>anger, you should better aquaint yourself with what we really said
>>>>>>>>The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>>>>>>"Old friend, what are you looking for?  After those many years
>>>>>>>>come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your
>>>>>>>>George Seferis
>>>>>>>>Phone or Fax::
>>>>>>>>+1 (985) 360-3375
>>>>>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
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