[nfb-talk] canes and planes

Kathleen Millhoff kmillhoff at gmail.com
Sun Jun 28 12:54:22 UTC 2009


hi,
i've enjoyed reading these responses; i don't have too many
difficulties with flying but hoped to use a bit of our history to
describe something about assistive technology for my presentation; i
agree with a couple comments here: drug or alcahol induced
insensitivity is far more frightening than blindness - and i'll
mention this to any who cre to listen.
thanks to all
kat


On 6/27/09, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> that's really cool and it sucks that not everybody gets a good break.
> i was just wondering how people felt about the security points and if anyone
> had been excessively harassed.
>
> in '99, i went with my mom to visit cousin/family and go to the autolite
> nationals drag race in san fran and had to open my large nylon bag before
> the return flight because the guy watching the xray screen thought he saw a
> large hunting knife.  he thought he would gain a bonus or promotion for
> catching a thug with an illegal weapon and was pissed when he found out it
> was the body of a die cast funny car resting rolled up on one side.
> Bryan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>
>
>>
>> Dear Brian,
>>
>> As a well adjusted blind person, a scientist and engineer, I well
>> understand the reasons that some people choose to use a ridged cane versus
>>
>> a folding or telescoping cane.
>> I also understand the reasons that the cane must be removed for a minute
>> to be inspected by security at the airports.
>> Explosives or other dangerous things could be made to resemble a cane, to
>> be gotten pass security.
>> I am certainly capable of walking a few feet without the service of my
>> cane and understand this is needed to preserve everyone's safety and
>> security in traveling these days.
>> I have to do the same thing every time I go into a government building or
>> a high security area anyway.
>> They also make people take their shoes off too, don't they?
>> I am not going to get bent out of shape over it.  I understand the reasons
>>
>> why and I can live with it.
>> When I was younger, I worked in top secret programs, where security was
>> very tight. and can only say that I often had to fly to work, at a
>> location I can not talk about freely, where I had to go through a strict
>> inspection before I got on the plane and then an through an even tougher
>> one when I got off.
>> We could not see out of the windows, did not know exactly where we were or
>>
>> how long we might even be there.
>> We were not let off the plane until it was inside the hanger and the doors
>>
>> were closed.  Then we had to go  through a special security check where we
>>
>> had to insert our own special I.D. card into a slot and place our fingers
>> on a special sensor plate to read our finger prints.
>> We were then allowed to go down into the underground to a long hall we
>> just called "Broadway."
>> Broadway led of to many shops and labs as well as sleeping rooms, a gym,
>> movie theater, cafe and meeting rooms.
>> Access was very restricted and you were discouraged from talking to people
>>
>> from other shops and labs.
>> I had to fill out a form each week and name who I saw, spoke too and what
>> we talked about.  I had people follow me around and keep tabs on me even
>> at home and sometimes go through my trash.    If there was any question, I
>>
>> was hauled into a office and hooked up to a lie detector and grilled like
>> a hot dog at the beach.
>> As maybe you can see, there is allot more things tougher than the airport
>> security you have to put up with.
>> I was legally blind even then but did not yet carry a cane as I do today.
>> The projects I was working on were the SR-71 and the F-117 Stealth Fighter
>>
>> Programs and I don't think I have to tell you who ran the programs do I?
>>
>> David Evans, NFBF
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>>
>>
>>> dave,
>>>
>>> i have done the same with no problems but we were using common sense.
>>> what about the older people who refuse to use anything other than a rigid
>>> one piece cane that you can't easily put out of the way then they raise a
>>> stink or threaten legal action when it is taken from them?
>>> what about going thru the security point?
>>> in 1999 in st. louis to san fran and in 2006 st. louis to dallas, the
>>> security staff will not let you walk thru the walls with your cane.  they
>>> put it on the conveyer belt and reach thru from the other side, grasp
>>> your
>>> hands and help you from bumping the walls then give you back your cane.
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Kat,
>>>>
>>>> I have never had my cane taken away from me ever, when flying on a
>>>> plane.
>>>> I do carry a NFB telescoping cane and usually collapse it upon entering
>>>> the plane and hang it on one of my belt loops with the "D" ring clip
>>>> that
>>>> is tied to the top of the cane.
>>>> Most people never even see it there.  I then take it off, after I am in
>>>> my
>>>> seat and slide it into the seat pocket in front of me.
>>>> I have always found it strange that they don't want to let me sit in the
>>>> exit row because I am blind.  Especially since I help develop and test
>>>> the
>>>> special "butterfly" valves that are used to inflate the 90 foot long
>>>> exit
>>>> slides at the emergency doors.
>>>> They are afraid that we can not read the instructions on how to open the
>>>> doors and when they should be opened.
>>>> They think that we are not smart enough to know that you don't open the
>>>> door if there is fire outside on that side of the plane, like we would
>>>> not
>>>> know just from all of the reaction of the other passengers yelling about
>>>> it as soon as they see it.  There is also the fact that some of the
>>>> doors
>>>> open inward and weigh about 90 pounds.  Some open outward and some
>>>> inward.
>>>> Most require you to pull a "bobby pin" safety pin and then lift up on a
>>>> handle to get the door to open and automatically inflate the slide.
>>>> I think that letting a passenger get too drunk is a far greater danger
>>>> than the presents of a blind person sitting in the exit row.  Especially
>>>> when the lights go out.
>>>> Just enjoy your trip and good luck with your presentation.
>>>> Former resident of NAS Agana Guam.
>>>>
>>>> David Evans, NFBF
>>>> Nuclear/aerospace materials Engineer
>>>> Builder of the Lunar Rovers and the F-117 Stealth Fighter
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Kathleen Millhoff" <kmillhoff at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 2:17 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> thanks very much. there are still days when it occurs to me that for
>>>>> many in society almost anything would be acceptable other than
>>>>> blindness.
>>>>> Still, I expect we're going to win in the long run.
>>>>> This helps.
>>>>> kat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/24/09, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>> There were several incidents in the 1980's where people were
>>>>>> arrested, people were removed from planes, planes were held up
>>>>>> etc.  Then basically, with the passage of the Air Carrier Access Act,
>>>>>> in 1986 or 88 I think, we lost any legal defense we might have
>>>>>> had.  The airlines were able to put into this law that anyone sitting
>>>>>> in an exit row had to be able to do certain things visually.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, we have lost that battle, but the war isn't over yet.  I think we
>>>>>> were to early in our protests -- that is society just wasn't far
>>>>>> enough along in its thinking at the time where they could understand
>>>>>> and accept what we were saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The one thing we did accomplish, which benefits all airline
>>>>>> passengers is that we forced airlines to look at their practices
>>>>>> concerning exit row seating, and give it more attention.  Way back
>>>>>> then people who shouldn't have sat there were allowed to do so,
>>>>>> people who sat there were allowed to get inebriated etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 04:17 PM 6/23/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>>Good Morning from the Western Pacific,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm getting ready to present some opening remarks at a technology
>>>>>>>conference here, and wonder if I could have some help; specifically,
>>>>>>>I'd like to move beyond myth, legend and hearsay and learn the truth
>>>>>>>about what happened when the NFB protested against having canes taken
>>>>>>>away on airlines. By the way, I'm pretty old, and never had a problem
>>>>>>>with my cane on a plane but since lots of people did, and the NFB
>>>>>>>dealt with it, I'd like to know some specific things. For one thing,
>>>>>>>I've heard or read or just intuited, that people blocked planes from
>>>>>>>take-off somewhere. I was working it into my talk when I realized that
>>>>>>>I didn't really know if this happened. Having been aided, corrected
>>>>>>>and advised many times on this list, I hope someone will help me learn
>>>>>>>the reality of the situation.
>>>>>>>Thanks very much.
>>>>>>>kat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>kathy millhoff - "Let each morn be better than its eve, and each
>>>>>>>morrow richer than its yesterday."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> kathy millhoff - "Let each morn be better than its eve, and each
>>>>> morrow richer than its yesterday."
>>>>>
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-- 
kathy millhoff - "Let each morn be better than its eve, and each
morrow richer than its yesterday."




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