[nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing

Bryan Schulz b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
Fri Oct 16 01:30:50 UTC 2009


hi,

yes that is correct,
minnesota has horse back riding and i don't know about louisiana.

Bryan Schulz

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing


> BLIND, Inc does not have rock climbing.  I can state that for a fact as a 
> former employee of that center.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Aldrich" <jajkaldrich at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 6:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>
>
>> Hello Peter and all,
>>
>> So far, I have noted that not all NFB centers have the rock climbing
>> activity.  If I'm wrong, let me know!  I'd probably go to the one which 
>> does
>> not have this activity at this point in time!  I do know a friend of mine
>> was injured to the point where he had to come home and no telling how 
>> long
>> he'll be recovering from his injuries.  He might bring a doctor's 
>> statement
>> which says he should not participate in this activity!  If this is so, I
>> hope this is noted and he can continue with his training despite what had
>> happened!  If not, I wouldn't be surprised if a given center might not be
>> taken to task for this legally if service is in fact denied!  All of this 
>> is
>> most interesting!  My friend is probably one of the few which may have 
>> had
>> problems which is a good thing of course!  As for myself, I don't see 
>> myself
>> coming to an NFB Center any time soon!  This will be left to younger 
>> people!
>> Rock Climbing isn't on my agenda presently till the time I may need to
>> consider such activity!  I think an NFB center deals nicely with 
>> blindness
>> but not sure about programs for aging persons, multi disabilities etc.  I
>> guess before I attend any of the NFB centers myself, I'd like to know how
>> and where exceptions if any are made!  I think it is good to know that
>> people are considered on a case by case situation!  Unfortunately, not 
>> many
>> other centers conduct themselves in the same fashion as an NFB center.
>>
>> Perhaps I should apologize for stepping on a sacred cow or two but I have 
>> a
>> right to be concerned!  After all, I am a member of this organization 
>> myself
>> for better or for worse (grin smile)!  I do like to know that people are
>> indeed being treated fairly and are given the best opportunities possible
>> despite other challenges.  That's all!
>>
>> Thanks for reading!
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "Chad Allen" <chad at chadallenmagic.com>; "NFB Talk Mailing List"
>> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:43 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>
>>
>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>
>>    Exactly. Anyone who doesn't want to fulfill this requirement for
>> successful completion of training at one of our centers needs to rethink
>> their choice of orientation and adjustment center. Informed choice rules!
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Chad Allen" <chad at chadallenmagic.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>
>>
>> It is considered a requirement for graduation from the center. Everything 
>> is
>> discussed prior to enrollment and is simply par for the course.
>>
>> -original message-
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> Date: 10/15/2009 10:31 AM
>>
>> oh yea,
>>
>> try getting out of it!
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Alan" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>
>>
>>> No one is forced.  It is, to my knowledge, just an option.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm unclear as to the purpose of these centers? Do people go to them 
>>>> for
>>>> the opportunity to do things like rock climbing?  Because I would 
>>>> imagine
>>>> that if the NFB didn't provide opportunities like that, it would be 
>>>> very
>>>> difficult to find them otherwise. I can't imagine most rock climbing
>>>> places letting blind people participate. Heck, one time I tried to sign
>>>> up for a wood working class and they kicked me out when they found out 
>>>> I
>>>> was blind.
>>>>
>>>> But if a person wants to work on his job and mobility skills, he
>>>> shouldn't be forced to climb rocks. I wouldn't have a problem with 
>>>> state
>>>> governments supporting recreational facilities for the blind. But if
>>>> these centers are intended primarily as rehab centers, then they
>>>> shouldn't be forcing people to climb rocks.
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:17 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB Centers and Rock Climbing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Jim and listers,
>>>>>
>>>>>    Okay let me take a stab at this one. I'll insert my comments
>>>>> following
>>>>> yours and will indicate them with the letter A. Here goes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all!
>>>>>
>>>>> Do all NFB centers insist that clients rock climb?  I'm referring to 
>>>>> the
>>>>> three NFB centers in Minnesota, Colorado, and Louisiana as well as
>>>>> centers
>>>>> which are a part of a state's rehab program as is the case in Iowa and
>>>>> Nebraska?
>>>>>
>>>>> A. Yes
>>>>>
>>>>>  Can a client be exempt from this exercise due to health, age or
>>>>> other complications?
>>>>>
>>>>> A.
>>>>>    Each case is considered on an individual basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have people been denied services from all of the above
>>>>> agencies if they refused to rock climb or they obtained a doctor's
>>>>> statement
>>>>> that they shouldn't engage in such activity?
>>>>>
>>>>> A.
>>>>>    Recall the discussion of informed choice we've had from 
>>>>> time-to-time.
>>>>> These centers have a set curriculum students are required to take
>>>>> including
>>>>> participation in recreational activities such as rock climbing. Such
>>>>> exemptions could be viewed as attempts by center students to "Menuize"
>>>>> the
>>>>> training. They never realize the full benefit of the program if they
>>>>> attempt
>>>>> to "Water down" these center curriculums by requesting exemptions from
>>>>> this
>>>>> or that part of the training. Here again each case is considered on an
>>>>> individual basis.
>>>>>
>>>>>  What exempts people from this
>>>>> activity and if they are exempt, can they still receive services from
>>>>> our
>>>>> NFB agencies?
>>>>>
>>>>>    A.
>>>>>    Much of my answer can be found above but I'll add here that if a
>>>>> student
>>>>> chooses not to participate in a class or activity all center students
>>>>> must
>>>>> attend or take part in they should reconsider their choice of
>>>>> orientation
>>>>> and adjustment center if they're unwilling to participate in the 
>>>>> entire
>>>>> center curriculum.
>>>>>
>>>>> A friend of mine returned from one of these centers.  He has a badly
>>>>> sprained leg or he has pulled ligaments in his leg!  Needless to say, 
>>>>> he
>>>>> is
>>>>> out of the program or is immobile for an undetermined amount of time!
>>>>> This
>>>>> person was otherwise happy with the program and I commend this person
>>>>> for
>>>>> giving it a good try but I think there comes a time when a person my 
>>>>> age
>>>>> who
>>>>> is twice 30 shouldn't attempt such a thing!  If I were in my 20s and
>>>>> 30s, I
>>>>> wouldn't question this but when one is in their late 40s and beyond, 
>>>>> I'd
>>>>> question whether this is such a good idea!
>>>>>
>>>>> Any thoughts?A.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Our centers have had students in their 80s participate in roc
>>>>> climbing,
>>>>> skydiving, and other high-impact activities. There are several 
>>>>> accounts
>>>>> of
>>>>> blind senior citizens that attended our centers and participated in 
>>>>> all
>>>>> aspects of their programs and had a darn good time doing so published 
>>>>> in
>>>>> The
>>>>> Braille Monitor. Your friend needs to not allow his accident prevent 
>>>>> him
>>>>> from returning to the NFB center to finish his training. There are
>>>>> numerous
>>>>> accounts of students who due to accident or illness were unable to
>>>>> complete
>>>>> the initial part of their training but returned later to finish. This
>>>>> should
>>>>> not be a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>    As far as doctors exemptions go remember that health care
>>>>> professionals
>>>>> are influanced by the same prevailing attitudes and beliefs about
>>>>> blindness
>>>>> and our capabilities as is the general public. It would be easy for a
>>>>> doctor
>>>>> to "issue a letter requesting that a student not be required to
>>>>> participate
>>>>> in this or that part of the center program due to these mistaken
>>>>> attitudes
>>>>> and beliefs about the blind. What happens if that same doctor is
>>>>> presented
>>>>> with a health report for a blind individual in their 80s wishing to
>>>>> attend a
>>>>> sports camp where rock climbing is one of the activities offered and
>>>>> that
>>>>> patient chooses to participate in that activity. There's the 
>>>>> possibility
>>>>> that the doctor may discourage this person from engaging in rock
>>>>> climbing
>>>>> even though the person is healthy. They can thank the patient who
>>>>> mistakenly
>>>>> believed that older blind individuals shouldn't participate in this
>>>>> activity. Let me recommend that you take some rock climbing lessons 
>>>>> and
>>>>> then
>>>>> reread your post.
>>>>>
>>>>>    I hope I was able to shed some light on this issue for you. All the
>>>>> best.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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