[nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives

Ray Foret Jr rforetjr at comcast.net
Thu Apr 22 02:50:17 UTC 2010 

Agreed, we are not there yet.  Perhaps what is needed is some individual or group of individuals composed of blind people who are no longer on SSI and who are federationists to seriously sit down and ask the question, just how can we help those on SSI and who do have legitimate need get off SSI and in to good jobs?  Maybe one individual could start a networking process that might lead eventually to some better solution.  Look, folks, if we say that the simplist solution is just to leave things as they are, how can we any longer say that we're inovaative about providing or trying to provide solutions to these very real world problems.  No, our solutions most likely won't be perfect, but, can we not even be honest with ourselves enough to admit that we do need some better way?


Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!

Now a proud Mac user!!!!!

e-mail:
rforetjr at comcast dot net
skype:
barefootedray

On Apr 21, 2010, at 7:19 PM, David Andrews wrote:

> Ray:
> 
> I think you ask some good questions -- questions that have nothing to do with being a liberal or a conservative, or a dog (smile.)  Your language in this message is diplomatic and considered and I think accomplishes more than some previous messages.  People get caught up in this and that and don't hear the message.
> 
> I think that as a community we will ultimately decide that the price for things like the extra tax exemption, SSI, SSDI, etc., is just to high, but with a 70 percent unemployment rate, we are just not there yet.
> 
> No, this system isn't working, but the chance of a wholesale replacement is slim.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 11:14 PM 4/20/2010, you wrote:
>> All I'm asking now is this.  do we blind people have the intestsinal fortitude to frankly face the fact that the SSI check is not the best way for us to get ahead in this society?  If even asking that is a crime in the federation, mark me down as being about as guilty as one can get.  Sometimes, the truth hurts, and that fact does not negate the eventual fact that we're going to have to shut down SSI and create something better.  Yes, I'll again speak frankly here.  We need to shut down SSI and social security.  those things punish the blind for trying to work.  I said it last night and I'll say it again.  IF a blind person tries to go to work, they don't make enough money to live, and yet, too much money to get needed help.  How do I know?  It happened to me.  So, with all due respect, don't tell me I know not of what I speak!!!  I'm not saying that those who need help should not get it; but, can we not even be honest with ourselves and each other about the fact that our current set up may not be the best way to cary us in to the future?  IS that too hard to do?  Is that too much to ask?  I said what I said in this message and there's no taking it back.  Even if I wanted to, it's too late.  If we can't even be honest with ourselves about this, what have we come too?
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>> 
>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>> 
>> E-Mail:
>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>> Skype:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>> 
>> > Stepping back and examining our points of view makes a lot of sense to me and it is something I try to do often.
>> > Actually, one element of Ray's comments that fits into this notion is that we do need to look at what we ask of society to
>> > figure out what we need as opposed to what we want.  I further believe we need to think about the cost of what we
>> > might request society and what the benefits are to us and to society.  These seem like reasonable questions that should
>> > not be seen as conservative or liberal.  Still, if this is even what Ray is saying, I find it very hard to believe that our
>> > overall status, the 70% unemployed for example, is related to a sense of entitlement.  As we make progress, we do need
>> > to be prepared to consider that some benefits of various types are no longer needed.   However, we have some pretty
>> > large obstacles to overcome before we get there.  Labeling us as having a sense of entitlement that overshadows the
>> > other barriers we encounter really does not recognize reality.  To extreme conservatives and to extreme liberals, life is
>> > just a theory.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Steve Jacobson
>> >
>> > On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:04:22 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
>> >
>> >> Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in discussing
>> >> liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner. People should
>> >> occasionally take a step back and examine their point of view. Far too many
>> >> people make up their minds and then start casting around for reasons to
>> >> believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for disaster.  That's
>> >> how mistakes are made.
>> >
>> >> I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking of calling
>> >> it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom of speech.
>> >> And most people even understand why its so important. Its not just because
>> >> we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so important is that it
>> >> allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete against each other in a
>> >> society with free speech and most of the time, the best idea wins.  Its
>> >> called the market place of ideas.
>> >
>> >> But very few people apply the concept of the market place of ideas to their
>> >> own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most people to do.
>> >> Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then start casting about
>> >> for information to support what they already believe.  And that is a recipe
>> >> for wrongness.
>> >
>> >> If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you believe, you
>> >> will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a better chess
>> >> player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost almost all of my
>> >> matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying to get a
>> >> realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are my opponent's
>> >> strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might not see? Is he
>> >> missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's going on in my
>> >> opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. It was like magic.
>> >
>> >> The real message in the chess tournament story is not the importance of
>> >> trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there is how few
>> >> people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy chess players.
>> >> Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>> >
>> >> Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it
>> >> everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political opinions, take
>> >> a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working or not. Do
>> >> they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my beliefs? Do I
>> >> believe what I believe because I want to or because of the facts?  If more
>> >> people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and the world would be a
>> >> better place.
>> >
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>> >> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi all,
>> >
>> >> Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as conservative and
>> >> "right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have been used to
>> >> inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>> >
>> >> In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate into anger and
>> >> downright polarization on a scale we have never seen before.  I and others
>> >> survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see our
>> >> potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our resolve disintegrate
>> >> along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political leanings.  Knock off
>> >> the words and find ways to come together.  Stop calling each other names and
>> >> recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case of the NFB it is to
>> >> promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all blind Americans
>> >> should have.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Mike Hingson
>> >
>> >
>> >> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>> >> "Speaking with Vision"
>> >> Michael Hingson, President
>> >> (415) 827-4084
>> >> info at michaelhingson.com
>> >> www.michaelhingson.com
>> >
>> >
>> >> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>> >> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>> >> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>> >
>> >> Just being honest.  That's all.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Sincerely,
>> >> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>> >
>> >> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>> >
>> >> E-Mail:
>> >> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>> >> Skype:
>> >> barefootedray
>> >
>> >> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>> >
>> >>> I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally you refrain
>> >> from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The correct term is
>> >> "liberal" or "progressive".
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>> >>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> RyanO,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long overdue stand for
>> >> us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at perhaps some
>> >> risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have feared that perhaps the
>> >> federation was leaning rather too far over to the left.  But why?  It's the
>> >> entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly.  We poor blind
>> >> think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for many of us,
>> >> that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more of us don't
>> >> have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to go to work. When we do,
>> >> we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other hand, we make
>> >> too much to receive any help from the socialist security system.  What,
>> >> there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many blind
>> >> individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that government will
>> >> "look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what that
>> >> really means, you'll see that i
>> >>>> t goes directly against the grain of true federationism.  It personally
>> >> hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by the
>> >> Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling wanted to
>> >> dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and feel still that my fellow
>> >> conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to hate
>> >> political correctness; that is, until it comes to the blind.  That turns my
>> >> stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the federation fail to
>> >> reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable being in bed
>> >> with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I was sincerely hoping
>> >> that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital talking book
>> >> program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to ride the back
>> >> of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems, however, that
>> >> this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here, I personally
>> >> couldn't care whether any individu
>> >>>> al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist, an
>> >> extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about is the fact
>> >> that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going to have to
>> >> figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be looking for that
>> >> check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're being looked
>> >> after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be enough.  What I
>> >> look forward to in this debate is not accusation after accusation, but
>> >> rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid ourselves of the entitlement
>> >> mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sincerely,
>> >>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> E-Mail:
>> >>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>> >>>> Skype:
>> >>>> barefootedray
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>> >> <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Dave
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked to reach out
>> >> to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative to come speak
>> >> at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability issues. We
>> >> already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of our
>> >> members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several days of phone
>> >> tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>> >> representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was because, "Obama
>> >> was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and hurt. We tried
>> >> to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we didn't matter.
>> >> To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit being a
>> >> conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The second option was to
>> >> get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all levels.
>> >> Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush Fires. It is
>> >> primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network of
>> >> communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is welcome on
>> >> this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In the spirit of
>> >> the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion fosters a more
>> >> vibrant society for all of its members.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough, I plan to
>> >> turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information, please Email
>> >> me at
>> >>>>> ryano218 at comcast.net
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thank you for your time and attention.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> RyanO
> 
> 
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