[nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives

Tanna G. Shoyo tshoyo at neb.rr.com
Fri Apr 23 01:14:51 UTC 2010


Good evening:
I was reading some of the posts, so I wanted to add the thoughts lol.  I see 
people pulling every trick in the book to get by.  I work with low income 
people and the guidlines the feds set is highly crazy.  You got to wonder 
sometimes.

Tanna
Lincoln, NE
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives


> but they do get their marijuana, right? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>
>
> Its ironic that here in California with the increased supplement for SSI
> beneficiaries they are ineligible for Food Stamps.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 12:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>
>
>> Oh all right:
>>
>> Social Security is slavery.  It's just that simple.  It forces a person
>> without outside resources (and of course, you're not supposed to have any
>> outside resources) to avail themselves of food stamps, subsidized 
>> housing,
>> and a host of other socialized welfare programs just to survive in a
>> meager existence well below the established poverty line.
>>
>> If you dare get even a minimum wage job, at least on my state, you run
>> afoul of the earnings limit twice a year.  If you weren't blind, a 
>> minimum
>> wage job would simply be "too much" income.  Loss of Social Security 
>> means
>> you lose eligibility for a good number of those additional programs which
>> make living on Social Security possible.  Could I, with an artificial
>> meager income pay the rent on an apartment if the rent were not also
>> artificially meager?  I live in downtown Portland, Oregon.  The rent in
>> downtown Portland is four figures.
>>
>> Doubtless we all know the saying that if you give a man a fish, he eats
>> for a day.  If you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.  Social
>> Security is a fish, and a pretty small one at that.  It is a handout.
>> Every single person reading this message knows that, and they know the
>> consequences of employment where you make just a little too much, but not
>> enough too much.
>>
>> And we know the reason why it exists.  Social Security is intended to be
>> welfare for the poor cripples and handicapped people who are in such
>> desperate need of charity they just cannot get from anyone but the
>> Government.  We have to HELP them, because they obviously can't help
>> themselves!  And moreover, while we won't admit this to ourselves, much
>> less to them, we have to make sure that they keep needing us to HELP 
>> them,
>> so we can continue to justify the existence of our jobs in the 
>> government.
>>
>> If that attitude doesn't offend you, then I don't know what I can say to
>> you.  It sure offends me.  But that is exactly how the people who are
>> responsible for these things think about us.  We aren't people to them, 
>> we
>> are charity cases.
>>
>> I am not a charity case.  I don't want a handout.  Give me instead a hand
>> up!  Don't hand me a fish so that I may eat.  Teach me how to fish so 
>> that
>> I can sell them and buy steak!  (I don't much care for fish...)
>>
>> If the powers that be will not give me a hand up, then I will find others
>> who will.  I will learn the skills, find the tools, master the 
>> techniques,
>> and create my own opportunities for success.  I am blind, but that will
>> not stop me.  I am proud to be a member of the National Federation of the
>> Blind, and I am not content to be a second class citizen, sitting at home
>> for fear that I might lose my "benefits" if I attempt to do more with my
>> life.
>>
>> That's all that matters here.  My political ideology doesn't matter all
>> that much for the purposes of the NFB, though I bet it doesn't take a
>> rocket scientist to guess what it is.  *grin*
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:14:51PM -0500, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>>>All I'm asking now is this.  do we blind people have the intestsinal
>>>fortitude to frankly face the fact that the SSI check is not the best way
>>>for us to get ahead in this society?  If even asking that is a crime in
>>>the federation, mark me down as being about as guilty as one can get.
>>>Sometimes, the truth hurts, and that fact does not negate the eventual
>>>fact that we're going to have to shut down SSI and create something
>>>better.  Yes, I'll again speak frankly here.  We need to shut down SSI 
>>>and
>>>social security.  those things punish the blind for trying to work.  I
>>>said it last night and I'll say it again.  IF a blind person tries to go
>>>to work, they don't make enough money to live, and yet, too much money to
>>>get needed help.  How do I know?  It happened to me.  So, with all due
>>>respect, don't tell me I know not of what I speak!!!  I'm not saying that
>>>those who need help should not get it; but, can we not even be honest 
>>>with
>>>ourselves and each other about the fact that our current set up may not 
>>>be
>>>the best w
>>>ay to cary us in to the future?  IS that too hard to do?  Is that too 
>>>much
>>>to ask?  I said what I said in this message and there's no taking it 
>>>back.
>>>Even if I wanted to, it's too late.  If we can't even be honest with
>>>ourselves about this, what have we come too?
>>>Sincerely,
>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>
>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>
>>>E-Mail:
>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>Skype:
>>>barefootedray
>>>
>>>On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stepping back and examining our points of view makes a lot of sense to
>>>> me and it is something I try to do often.
>>>> Actually, one element of Ray's comments that fits into this notion is
>>>> that we do need to look at what we ask of society to
>>>> figure out what we need as opposed to what we want.  I further believe
>>>> we need to think about the cost of what we
>>>> might request society and what the benefits are to us and to society.
>>>> These seem like reasonable questions that should
>>>> not be seen as conservative or liberal.  Still, if this is even what 
>>>> Ray
>>>> is saying, I find it very hard to believe that our
>>>> overall status, the 70% unemployed for example, is related to a sense 
>>>> of
>>>> entitlement.  As we make progress, we do need
>>>> to be prepared to consider that some benefits of various types are no
>>>> longer needed.   However, we have some pretty
>>>> large obstacles to overcome before we get there.  Labeling us as having
>>>> a sense of entitlement that overshadows the
>>>> other barriers we encounter really does not recognize reality.  To
>>>> extreme conservatives and to extreme liberals, life is
>>>> just a theory.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:04:22 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in discussing
>>>>> liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner. People should
>>>>> occasionally take a step back and examine their point of view. Far too
>>>>> many
>>>>> people make up their minds and then start casting around for reasons 
>>>>> to
>>>>> believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for disaster.
>>>>> That's
>>>>> how mistakes are made.
>>>>
>>>>> I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking of
>>>>> calling
>>>>> it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom of
>>>>> speech.
>>>>> And most people even understand why its so important. Its not just
>>>>> because
>>>>> we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so important is
>>>>> that it
>>>>> allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete against each other
>>>>> in a
>>>>> society with free speech and most of the time, the best idea wins. 
>>>>> Its
>>>>> called the market place of ideas.
>>>>
>>>>> But very few people apply the concept of the market place of ideas to
>>>>> their
>>>>> own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most people
>>>>> to do.
>>>>> Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then start casting
>>>>> about
>>>>> for information to support what they already believe.  And that is a
>>>>> recipe
>>>>> for wrongness.
>>>>
>>>>> If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you believe,
>>>>> you
>>>>> will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a better
>>>>> chess
>>>>> player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost almost all of
>>>>> my
>>>>> matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying to get a
>>>>> realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are my 
>>>>> opponent's
>>>>> strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might not see? 
>>>>> Is
>>>>> he
>>>>> missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's going on in my
>>>>> opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. It was like
>>>>> magic.
>>>>
>>>>> The real message in the chess tournament story is not the importance 
>>>>> of
>>>>> trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there is how
>>>>> few
>>>>> people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy chess
>>>>> players.
>>>>> Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>>>>
>>>>> Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it
>>>>> everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political 
>>>>> opinions,
>>>>> take
>>>>> a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working or not.
>>>>> Do
>>>>> they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my beliefs?
>>>>> Do I
>>>>> believe what I believe because I want to or because of the facts?  If
>>>>> more
>>>>> people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and the world would
>>>>> be a
>>>>> better place.
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>> Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as conservative
>>>>> and
>>>>> "right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have been used 
>>>>> to
>>>>> inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>>>>
>>>>> In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate into anger
>>>>> and
>>>>> downright polarization on a scale we have never seen before.  I and
>>>>> others
>>>>> survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see our
>>>>> potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our resolve
>>>>> disintegrate
>>>>> along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political leanings.
>>>>> Knock off
>>>>> the words and find ways to come together.  Stop calling each other
>>>>> names and
>>>>> recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case of the NFB it is
>>>>> to
>>>>> promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all blind
>>>>> Americans
>>>>> should have.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Mike Hingson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>>> "Speaking with Vision"
>>>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>>>> (415) 827-4084
>>>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>
>>>>> Just being honest.  That's all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>> Skype:
>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally you
>>>>>> refrain
>>>>> from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The correct
>>>>> term is
>>>>> "liberal" or "progressive".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr"
>>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RyanO,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long overdue stand
>>>>>>> for
>>>>> us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at perhaps
>>>>> some
>>>>> risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have feared that perhaps the
>>>>> federation was leaning rather too far over to the left.  But why? 
>>>>> It's
>>>>> the
>>>>> entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly.  We poor
>>>>> blind
>>>>> think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for many
>>>>> of us,
>>>>> that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more of us
>>>>> don't
>>>>> have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to go to work. When we
>>>>> do,
>>>>> we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other hand, we
>>>>> make
>>>>> too much to receive any help from the socialist security system. 
>>>>> What,
>>>>> there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many blind
>>>>> individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that government
>>>>> will
>>>>> "look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what that
>>>>> really means, you'll see that i
>>>>>>> t goes directly against the grain of true federationism.  It
>>>>>>> personally
>>>>> hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by the
>>>>> Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling wanted to
>>>>> dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and feel still that my
>>>>> fellow
>>>>> conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to hate
>>>>> political correctness; that is, until it comes to the blind.  That
>>>>> turns my
>>>>> stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the federation
>>>>> fail to
>>>>> reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable being in
>>>>> bed
>>>>> with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I was sincerely
>>>>> hoping
>>>>> that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital talking 
>>>>> book
>>>>> program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to ride the
>>>>> back
>>>>> of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems, however,
>>>>> that
>>>>> this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here, I
>>>>> personally
>>>>> couldn't care whether any individu
>>>>>>> al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist, an
>>>>> extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about is the
>>>>> fact
>>>>> that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going to have
>>>>> to
>>>>> figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be looking for
>>>>> that
>>>>> check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're being
>>>>> looked
>>>>> after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be enough.
>>>>> What I
>>>>> look forward to in this debate is not accusation after accusation, but
>>>>> rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid ourselves of the
>>>>> entitlement
>>>>> mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>> Skype:
>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>>>>> <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked to reach
>>>>>>>> out
>>>>> to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative to come
>>>>> speak
>>>>> at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability
>>>>> issues. We
>>>>> already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of our
>>>>> members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several days of
>>>>> phone
>>>>> tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>>>>> representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was because,
>>>>> "Obama
>>>>> was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and hurt. We
>>>>>>>> tried
>>>>> to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we didn't
>>>>> matter.
>>>>> To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit being a
>>>>> conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The second option
>>>>> was to
>>>>> get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all levels.
>>>>> Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush Fires. It
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>> primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network of
>>>>> communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is welcome
>>>>> on
>>>>> this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In the spirit
>>>>> of
>>>>> the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion fosters a
>>>>> more
>>>>> vibrant society for all of its members.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough, I plan
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information, please
>>>>> Email
>>>>> me at
>>>>>>>> ryano218 at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you for your time and attention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RyanO
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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