[nfb-talk] SSI or not

T. Joseph Carter carter.tjoseph at gmail.com
Mon Apr 26 00:24:35 UTC 2010


Yes, and the promised that a person would never be "encouraged" to 
take that option.  They lied.  My stepfather was "encouraged" at 
least twice a week for the last three months of his life, and my mom 
was similarly "encouraged" to convince him that he was just going to 
suffer and should end it all.  Besides, he was on public health care 
and it really is expensive to pay for cancer treatment for someone 
who is old and going to die anyway.

Welcome to the future of medicine.  The usual pattern of these things 
is that it is first the elderly and infirm who "aren't worth" caring 
for, then the people who "do not produce as much as they consume, or 
perhaps a little more" to quote the great progressive icon, George 
Bernard Shaw.

Joseph

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 03:18:32PM -0500, qubit wrote:
>Oregon -- isn't that where they legalized assisted suicides?
>Sorry, but the quiet car issue made me think of it.*smile*
>--le
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 1:41 PM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] SSI or not
>
>
>The rule that seems to be changing is that you have to be a career
>politician who knows how to play the games in order to even dare
>think about running for congress.
>
>People are seeing the game, and they are disgusted by it.  And we're
>not so stupid as to think the corruption lies in the Democrat party,
>either, because the Republicans have pretty clearly been no better.
>
>A blind person has no more chance than a sighted person, but also no
>less at this point.  My ideal candidate nowadays is someone with real
>integrity, a good head on his shoulders, and who understands basic
>economics.  Bonus if that candidate recognizes that governments tend
>to do a really lousy job at fixing problems, particularly if they
>don't help a person get re-elected.  New Orleans' levees, anyone?
>
>Sadly I live in Oregon, where we seem to demand our politicians to be
>spineless, mush-headed imbeciles who constantly feel the need to cut
>that which is important to fund that which is ridiculous.
>
>Ron Wyden's flunkie (he wouldn't talk to us himself) went so far as
>to suggest the senator's opinion on the quiet cars issue was that we
>should all carry a little box that would beep when there was a quiet
>car on the streets.  I'd like to suggest that it was the flunkie who
>was so pathetically stupid, but he made it pretty clear that this was
>the senator's view.
>
>Joseph
>
>
>On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 01:29:52AM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>Actually, there are many instances of blind people running for and
>>holding office on all levels. When I lived in Michigan there were a
>>couple of blind judges and there are many blind legislators. This is
>>nothing new.
>>Chuck
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter"
>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>To: <info at michaelhingson.com>; "NFB Talk Mailing List"
>><nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:27 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] SSI or not
>>
>>
>>>Michael and Bryan,
>>>
>>>If you haven't noticed, there's a few hundred thousand people out
>>>there who are ready to rewrite the rules of the game, pleased with
>>>neither party right now.  The candidate nobody's ever heard of
>>>before is the one these people are most interested in right now.
>>>
>>>The danger is that some of the people you've never heard of are
>>>even worse than the ones we have.  I don't think I want to elect
>>>someone who believes that Dick Cheney blew up the world trade
>>>center, that Barack Obama was actually born in Kenya on the night
>>>of the full moon during a Satanic rite, or that there are secret
>>>mind control devices hidden in Luden's cough drops.  Sleazebag
>>>politicians are one thing, but electing those sorts of people is
>>>likely to be worse.
>>>
>>>It may be a bit late for 2010, but I don't see why a blind person
>>>could not run for office and have a fairly good shot if that person
>>>has real integrity, the sense God gave a goose, and can communicate
>>>these things well.
>>>
>>>Joseph
>>>
>>>
>>>On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 06:00:33AM -0700, Michael Hingson wrote:
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>I do have a clue.  However, that is how the game at present is played.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>>“Speaking with Vision”
>>>>Michael Hingson, President
>>>>(415) 827-4084
>>>>info at michaelhingson.com
>>>>www.michaelhingson.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:47 PM
>>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] SSI or not
>>>>
>>>>mike,
>>>>
>>>>do you even have a slight clue how long that would take even if you got
>>>>lucky and skipped a few rungs like local city mayor, school board, etc.?
>>>>
>>>>Bryan Schulz
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Aziza Cano" <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com>
>>>>To: <info at michaelhingson.com>; "NFB Talk Mailing List"
>>>><nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:39 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] SSI or not
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I wish people would state their views of other people's ideas in a more
>>>>>friendly manner. We all have ideas of how to make the world
>>>>>better for the
>>>>>blind and sighted communities, and it doesn't matter if we're right or
>>>>>wrong, we're here to support each other, not be condecending.
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>>>>To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:09 PM
>>>>>Subject: [nfb-talk] SSI or not
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>I am a bit lost here.  Isn't what Ray proposes what the NFB is doing?
>>>>>Many
>>>>>not on SSI as well as many more who are all are working together to work
>>>>>with congress to provide not only incentives to go off that program but
>>>>>also
>>>>>methods by which blind people can gain more of a foothold in the work
>>>>>force.
>>>>>For years this organization has been educating where it can.
>>>>>
>>>>>What we need is for individuals to work through their chapters
>>>>>to develop
>>>>>a
>>>>>louder and stronger voice.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here is a thought.  When are some of us going to run for and get elected
>>>>>to
>>>>>congress?  We all talk about what Congress should do, why don't
>>>>>we become
>>>>>part of the process to make it happen?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>>>"Speaking with Vision"
>>>>>Michael Hingson, President
>>>>>(415) 827-4084
>>>>>info at michaelhingson.com
>>>>>www.michaelhingson.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>>>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>[mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 2:54 PM
>>>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>
>>>>>What the heck are you talking about? I offered Ray a real way to start
>>>>>implementing his ideas. You could hardly be *less* dogmatic than that.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ray offers this completely unrealistic idea for doing away with
>>>>>SSI and I
>>>>>offer him a realistic way to make a difference, however small,
>>>>>and *I* am
>>>>>the one accused of being dogmatic?  Its insane.
>>>>>
>>>>>---- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:22 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>John, you are not reading past Ray's conservative politics to
>>>>>>the crux of
>>>>>>the problem -- you're both trying to solve the same problem I
>>>>>>believe --
>>>>>>Ray
>>>>>>is just musing on how to do that from one approach, you from
>>>>>>another. You
>>>>>>are being as dogmatic as you say Ray is, but of course it is
>>>>>>good you are
>>>>>>employed and attempting a solution.
>>>>>>I grew up trying to beat the stereotypes and do as much as
>>>>>>possible --  I
>>>>>>won't bore everyone more with that, but I wanted to add that
>>>>>>it was nice
>>>>>>when I was in school to have the government programs available to help
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>process along.
>>>>>>I think Ray is just saying that the handouts should be temporary, right
>>>>>>Ray?
>>>>>>Now before I get in more hot water I'll leave you both to your sniping.
>>>>>>--le
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:42 AM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ray,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why do you keep saying somebody should do this or somebody should do
>>>>>>that?
>>>>>>Why don't you just do it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'll tell you what... I am the President of a non-profit called the
>>>>>>International Association of Visually Impaired Technologists. See
>>>>>>http://www.iavit.org. We could use someone to maintain our
>>>>>>web site. If
>>>>>>you
>>>>>>can gather enough donations to IAVIT, we'll hire the person of your
>>>>>>choice
>>>>>>to maintain our web site. They'll have to be qualified, of course. But
>>>>>>you
>>>>>>can pick someone currently on SSI and we'll give them a job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>PS: You really need to knock  off this hhonesty bullstuff.  People with
>>>>>>opinions that differ from yours aren't simply being dishonest. That's
>>>>>>insulting because it implies that you have some kind of monopoly on the
>>>>>>truth. You don't. In fact, you have nothing but your unsubstantiated
>>>>>>opinions. When I've asked you for substantiation, you have
>>>>>>mrely repeated
>>>>>>your opinions as if that proves them.  So knock it off with the
>>>>>>intestinal
>>>>>>fortitude and honesty stuff. If you want me to believe you're
>>>>>>right then
>>>>>>prove it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:50 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Agreed, we are not there yet.  Perhaps what is needed is
>>>>>>>some individual
>>>>>>>or group of individuals composed of blind people who are no longer on
>>>>>>>SSI
>>>>>>>and who are federationists to seriously sit down and ask the question,
>>>>>>>just how can we help those on SSI and who do have legitimate need get
>>>>>>>off
>>>>>>>SSI and in to good jobs?  Maybe one individual could start
>>>>>>>a networking
>>>>>>>process that might lead eventually to some better solution.  Look,
>>>>>>>folks,
>>>>>>>if we say that the simplist solution is just to leave things as they
>>>>>>>are,
>>>>>>>how can we any longer say that we're inovaative about providing or
>>>>>>>trying
>>>>>>>to provide solutions to these very real world problems.  No, our
>>>>>>>solutions
>>>>>>>most likely won't be perfect, but, can we not even be honest with
>>>>>>>ourselves enough to admit that we do need some better way?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>e-mail:
>>>>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>skype:
>>>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Apr 21, 2010, at 7:19 PM, David Andrews wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ray:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I think you ask some good questions -- questions that have nothing to
>>>>>>>>do
>>>>>>>>with being a liberal or a conservative, or a dog (smile.)  Your
>>>>>>>>language
>>>>>>>>in this message is diplomatic and considered and I think accomplishes
>>>>>>>>more than some previous messages.  People get caught up in this and
>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>and don't hear the message.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I think that as a community we will ultimately decide that the price
>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>things like the extra tax exemption, SSI, SSDI, etc., is
>>>>>>>>just to high,
>>>>>>>>but with a 70 percent unemployment rate, we are just not there yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, this system isn't working, but the chance of a wholesale
>>>>>>>>replacement
>>>>>>>>is slim.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At 11:14 PM 4/20/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>All I'm asking now is this.  do we blind people have the intestsinal
>>>>>>>>>fortitude to frankly face the fact that the SSI check
>>>>>>>>>is not the best
>>>>>>>>>way for us to get ahead in this society?  If even asking that is a
>>>>>>>>>crime
>>>>>>>>>in the federation, mark me down as being about as guilty as one can
>>>>>>>>>get.
>>>>>>>>>Sometimes, the truth hurts, and that fact does not
>>>>>>>>>negate the eventual
>>>>>>>>>fact that we're going to have to shut down SSI and create something
>>>>>>>>>better.  Yes, I'll again speak frankly here.  We need
>>>>>>>>>to shut down SSI
>>>>>>>>>and social security.  those things punish the blind for trying to
>>>>>>>>>work.
>>>>>>>>>I said it last night and I'll say it again.  IF a blind person tries
>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>go to work, they don't make enough money to live, and yet, too much
>>>>>>>>>money to get needed help.  How do I know?  It happened to me.  So,
>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>>all due respect, don't tell me I know not of what I
>>>>>>>>>speak!!!  I'm not
>>>>>>>>>saying that those who need help should not get it; but, can we not
>>>>>>>>>even
>>>>>>>>>be honest with ourselves and each other about the fact that our
>>>>>>>current set up may not be the best way to cary us in to the
>>>>>>>future? IS
>>>>>>>that too hard to do?  Is that too much to ask?  I said what I said in
>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>message and there's no taking it back.  Even if I wanted to, it's too
>>>>>>>late.  If we can't even be honest with ourselves about this, what have
>>>>>>>we
>>>>>>>come too?
>>>>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>>Skype:
>>>>>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stepping back and examining our points of view makes
>>>>>>>>>a lot of > sense
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> me and it is something I try to do often.
>>>>>>>>>> Actually, one element of Ray's comments that fits into this notion
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> that we do need to look at what we ask of society to
>>>>>>>>>> figure out what we need as opposed to what we want.  I further
>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>> we need to think about the cost of what we
>>>>>>>>>> might request society and what the benefits are to us and to
>>>>>>>>>> society.
>>>>>>>>>> These seem like reasonable questions that should
>>>>>>>>>> not be seen as conservative or liberal.  Still, if
>>>>>>>>>this is even > what
>>>>>>>>>> Ray is saying, I find it very hard to believe that our
>>>>>>>>>> overall status, the 70% unemployed for example, is related to a
>>>>>>>>>> sense
>>>>>>>>>> of entitlement.  As we make progress, we do need
>>>>>>>>>> to be prepared to consider that some benefits of various types are
>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>> longer needed.   However, we have some pretty
>>>>>>>>>> large obstacles to overcome before we get there.  Labeling us as
>>>>>>>>>> having a sense of entitlement that overshadows the
>>>>>>>>>> other barriers we encounter really does not recognize reality.  To
>>>>>>>>>> extreme conservatives and to extreme liberals, life is
>>>>>>>>>> just a theory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:04:22 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in
>>>>>>>>>>> discussing
>>>>>>>>>>> liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner.
>>>>>>>>>People >> should
>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally take a step back and examine their
>>>>>>>>>point of view. >> Far
>>>>>>>>>>> too many
>>>>>>>>>>> people make up their minds and then start casting around for
>>>>>>>>>>> reasons
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for
>>>>>>>>>>> disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>>>>> how mistakes are made.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am actually planning to write a book about this.
>>>>>>>>>I'm thinking >> of
>>>>>>>>>>> calling
>>>>>>>>>>> it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom of
>>>>>>>>>>> speech.
>>>>>>>>>>> And most people even understand why its so
>>>>>>>>>important. Its not >> just
>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>> we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so important
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>>>>>> allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete against each
>>>>>>>>>>> other in a
>>>>>>>>>>> society with free speech and most of the time, the
>>>>>>>>>best idea >> wins.
>>>>>>>>>>> Its
>>>>>>>>>>> called the market place of ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But very few people apply the concept of the market
>>>>>>>>>place of >> ideas
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>>>>> Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then start
>>>>>>>>>>> casting
>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> for information to support what they already
>>>>>>>>>believe.  And that >> is
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> recipe
>>>>>>>>>>> for wrongness.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you
>>>>>>>>>>> believe, you
>>>>>>>>>>> will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even
>>>>>>>>>made me a >> better
>>>>>>>>>>> chess
>>>>>>>>>>> player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and
>>>>>>>>>lost almost >> all
>>>>>>>>>>> of my
>>>>>>>>>>> matches until I started sitting back occasionally
>>>>>>>>>and trying to >> get
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are my
>>>>>>>>>>> opponent's
>>>>>>>>>>> strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might not
>>>>>>>>>>> see?
>>>>>>>>>>> Is he
>>>>>>>>>>> missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's
>>>>>>>>>going on in >> my
>>>>>>>>>>> opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. It was
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> magic.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The real message in the chess tournament story is not the
>>>>>>>>>>> importance
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> trying to look into your opponents mind. The real
>>>>>>>>>insight there >> is
>>>>>>>>>>> how few
>>>>>>>>>>> people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy chess
>>>>>>>>>>> players.
>>>>>>>>>>> Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it
>>>>>>>>>>> everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political
>>>>>>>>>>> opinions, take
>>>>>>>>>>> a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working or
>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>> Do
>>>>>>>>>>> they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my
>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs?
>>>>>>>>>>> Do I
>>>>>>>>>>> believe what I believe because I want to or because of the facts?
>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and the world
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>> better place.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for
>>>>>>>>>Blind >> Conservatives
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as
>>>>>>>>>>> conservative
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> "right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have been
>>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate into
>>>>>>>>>>> anger
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> downright polarization on a scale we have never seen
>>>>>>>>>before.  I >> and
>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>> survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see
>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>> potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our resolve
>>>>>>>>>>> disintegrate
>>>>>>>>>>> along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political leanings.
>>>>>>>>>>> Knock off
>>>>>>>>>>> the words and find ways to come together.  Stop
>>>>>>>>>calling each >> other
>>>>>>>>>>> names and
>>>>>>>>>>> recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case
>>>>>>>>>of the NFB >> it
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all blind
>>>>>>>>>>> Americans
>>>>>>>>>>> should have.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mike Hingson
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>>>>>>>>> "Speaking with Vision"
>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>>>>>>>>>> (415) 827-4084
>>>>>>>>>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>>>>>>>>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just being honest.  That's all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>>>> Skype:
>>>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this
>>>>>>>>>rationally >>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> refrain
>>>>>>>>>>> from using perjoritives like "leftist" and
>>>>>>>>>"socialist". The >> correct
>>>>>>>>>>> term is
>>>>>>>>>>> "liberal" or "progressive".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RyanO,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long overdue
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at
>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have
>>>>>>>>>feared that >> perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> federation was leaning rather too far over to the left.  But why?
>>>>>>>>>>> It's the
>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it
>>>>>>>>>bluntly.  We >> poor
>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>>> think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for
>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>> of us,
>>>>>>>>>>> that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more of
>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to
>>>>>>>>>go to work. >> When
>>>>>>>>>>> we do,
>>>>>>>>>>> we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on
>>>>>>>>>the other >> hand,
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>> too much to receive any help from the socialist security system.
>>>>>>>>>>> What,
>>>>>>>>>>> there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many
>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>>> individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that
>>>>>>>>>>> government will
>>>>>>>>>>> "look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> really means, you'll see that i
>>>>>>>>>>>>> t goes directly against the grain of true federationism.  It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>> hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were
>>>>>>>>>deceived by >> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary
>>>>>>>>>Spelling wanted >> to
>>>>>>>>>>> dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and
>>>>>>>>>feel still that >> my
>>>>>>>>>>> fellow
>>>>>>>>>>> conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to
>>>>>>>>>>> hate
>>>>>>>>>>> political correctness; that is, until it comes to
>>>>>>>>>the blind. >> That
>>>>>>>>>>> turns my
>>>>>>>>>>> stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the
>>>>>>>>>>> federation
>>>>>>>>>>> fail to
>>>>>>>>>>> reach out to conservatives because they feel more
>>>>>>>>>comfortable >> being
>>>>>>>>>>> in bed
>>>>>>>>>>> with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I
>>>>>>>>>was >> sincerely
>>>>>>>>>>> hoping
>>>>>>>>>>> that our fight to get money to convert over to the
>>>>>>>>>digital >> talking
>>>>>>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>>>>> program would have taught the lesson that we cannot
>>>>>>>>>afford to >> ride
>>>>>>>>>>> the back
>>>>>>>>>>> of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems,
>>>>>>>>>>> however,
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here, I
>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't care whether any individu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about is
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>>>>>> that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going to
>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>>> figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll
>>>>>>>>>be looking >> for
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're being
>>>>>>>>>>> looked
>>>>>>>>>>> after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be
>>>>>>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>>>>>> What I
>>>>>>>>>>> look forward to in this debate is not accusation
>>>>>>>>>after >> accusation,
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid ourselves of the
>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement
>>>>>>>>>>> mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skype:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>>>>>>>>>>> <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative to
>>>>>>>>>>> come speak
>>>>>>>>>>> at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability
>>>>>>>>>>> issues. We
>>>>>>>>>>> already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of
>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>> members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After
>>>>>>>>>several days >> of
>>>>>>>>>>> phone
>>>>>>>>>>> tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>>>>>>>>>>> representative to speak to us. The reason I was
>>>>>>>>>given was >> because,
>>>>>>>>>>> "Obama
>>>>>>>>>>> was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I and my fellow conservative blind friends were
>>>>>>>>>angry and >>>>> hurt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried
>>>>>>>>>>> to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>> matter.
>>>>>>>>>>> To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was
>>>>>>>>>to quit >> being
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The second
>>>>>>>>>>> option
>>>>>>>>>>> was to
>>>>>>>>>>> get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all
>>>>>>>>>>> levels.
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To that end, I have created a mailing list
>>>>>>>>>called, Brush >>>>> Fires.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> primarily for blind conservatives so that we may
>>>>>>>>>form a network >> of
>>>>>>>>>>> communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is
>>>>>>>>>>> welcome
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In the
>>>>>>>>>>> spirit of
>>>>>>>>>>> the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion
>>>>>>>>>>> fosters
>>>>>>>>>>> a more
>>>>>>>>>>> vibrant society for all of its members.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information,
>>>>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>>>>> Email
>>>>>>>>>>> me at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ryano218 at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your time and attention.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RyanO
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
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>>
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