[nfb-talk] Here We Go Again

qubit lauraeaves at yahoo.com
Sat Dec 4 20:50:30 UTC 2010


I wasn't going to enter this one, but you mention that even with alternative 
methods, a blind person "can't" work as well and as fast as a sighted.  I 
say that in many instances, the opposite is true, mainly because a blind 
person is likely to take care to do something right the first time, he/she 
could end up working faster, or at least more correctly. I have mentioned 
before the digital logic class I took for my computer science major.  There 
were labs in which we built various devices from chips on a "breadboard".  I 
was concerned the lab would make the course impossible, but took it anyway, 
and discovered that I could easily distinguish the holes on the board 
tactilly, and hence could assemble the wires and chips without a problem.  I 
went to the lab to work on one large project and carefully inserted the 
wires like I said, and the device worked right the first time. The sighted 
student next to me on the other hand, plugged in the chips and wires in a 
hurry to finish, but ended up ripping it all out and reassembling them 
several times. So I leeft him there and turned in my assignment.

Now as for carpentry, I have never done that one.
You may be right for all I know, but a person should be given a chance to 
try.  If an employer doesn't want to risk a bad hire, there should at least 
be a competency test available to demonstrate proficiency.  Of course, 
sighted employees should be required to pass this as well.

Now that being said, it seems to me in one of the catalogs I saw a tactile 
measuring device that was accurate to 1 64th inch.
I never got it, but the fact that it and other carpentry tools are sold in 
the catalogs implies that carpentry is a craft that blind persons have been 
doing for decades.  So I would never underestimate a blind carpenter.

Now I have to go and work on my own skill set in other areas... All this 
talk is getting me hyped up to do something more than collect 
checks...*smile*
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again


don't know what you are talking about but seems like there are far more that
don't want to accept the fact that alternative techniques to accomplish the
same task as a sighted builder will take more time.

Bryan Schulz

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gloria Whipple" <fairyfoot at webband.com>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again


> He is just like the other one we talked about on the phone.
>
> They don't want to admit the truth.
>
>
> Gloria Whipple
> Corresponding Secretary
> Inland Empire chapter
> nfb of WA
>
> cell number: 509-475-4993
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 8:05 AM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>
> Maybe it's you who doesn't get our point.  I feel like I would make more
> progress convencing a brick wall.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Dec 4, 2010, at 9:58 AM, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>
>> everyone doesn't get the speed point.
>> how much extra time did it take him compared to same skill of a sighted
> builder and how much material had to be recut?
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Constance Canode"
> <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 9:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>
>>
>>> We have a very close friend, totally blind who can do just about
> anything. He repairs cars, he remodeled his basement, rebuilding the
> steps,
> and recently built us a porch on the back of our house.  He built a
> beautiful deck on his own house and did it single-handedly.  He does
> electrical work, plumbing and just about anything else you can name.  I
> wish
> my husband could do what he can do.  It would have saved us a ton of money
> years ago before I knew him.  Of course we paid for the porch, but since
> he
> is a friend, we made a good deal.  Never under-estimate the ability of a
> competent blind person.  With the right tools and knowledge, you can do
> whatever you choose.
>>>
>>> Connie Canode
>>> At 09:13 AM 12/4/2010, you wrote:
>>>> Brian,
>>>>
>>>> Get a life.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>> Corresponding Secretary
>>>> Inland Empire chapter
>>>> nfb of WA
>>>>
>>>> cell number: 509-475-4993
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>>>> Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 8:11 PM
>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>>
>>>> And what would you propose?  Leaving things the way they are?  Don't
>>>> you
>>>> think there are any blind people actually involved in the building of
> their
>>>> own homes?  Could it be that you don't think we do much of anything?
> Oh, of
>>>> course.  Sit in rocking chairs and listen to our state provided reading
>>>> radio service.  Yeah, that's the life for sure.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>
>>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>
>>>> Skype Name:
>>>> barefootedray
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 3, 2010, at 8:09 PM, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > wishful thinking...
>>>> > people here have no clue what happens in the one week build.
>>>> > a relative worked on one and there were all kind of worksmanship
>>>> > f-ups
>> and
>>>> people running everywhere.
>>>> > you really think a blind guy is going to carry sheets of drywall with
>>>> material and tools all over the site without falling?
>>>> > you don't get the pace.  just like there is a blind guy who owns a >
> racing
>>>> team but doesn't do the actual repair during race day due to the time
>>>> limits.
>>>> >
>>>> > Bryan Schulz
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Constance Canode"
>>>> <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 7:43 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Ray, that is an absolutely awesome idea.  Now if we can implement
>>>> >> it,
>>>> people would certainly get a different perspective on what blind people
> are
>>>> really like.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Connie Canode
>>>> >> At 11:43 AM 12/3/2010, you wrote:
>>>> >>> YOu know Peter, I was just kind of thinking.  I know of only one
>>>> >>> way
>>>> to
>>>> stop this.  What we need to do is get some independent and competent
> blind
>>>> people on the make over crew.  Once we do that, maybe they'll get the
> idea.
>>>> Barring that, maybe we ought to have some competent blind people at
> least
>>>> helping out on a make-over project; since I'm sure they wouldn't let us
>>>> officially be part of what I presume bills itself as a professional
>>>> make-over crew.
>>>> >>> Thoughts?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Sincerely,
>>>> >>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Skype Name:
>>>> >>> barefootedray
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Dec 3, 2010, at 11:27 AM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> > Hello John and everyone,
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >    If you take the time to read the message I sent concerning an
>>>> >>> experience
>>>> >>> > we had when looking for an apartment last spring you'd understand
>>>> > why
>>>> > the
>>>> >>> > red flags are flying. If Extreme Make-Over Home Edition continues
>>>> >>> to portray
>>>> >>> > us as helpless unable to live on our own without major
>>>> >>> modifications to the
>>>> >>> > home environment or a presumed dependency on a million gadgets >
>>>> incidents
>>>> >>> > like the one I described in my message earlier this morning will
>>>> >>> continue to
>>>> >>> > happen to blind people seeking housing. While we can't prove that
>>>> > the
>>>> >>> > manager at that apartment complex was influenced by an episode of
>>>> >>> this show
>>>> >>> > where a blind person or a couple were featured if this TV network
>>>> >>> continues
>>>> >>> > to cast us as unable to manage our own home they'll certainly be
>>>> >>> suspect in
>>>> >>> > my book.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Peter Donahue
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>> > From: "John Heim" <john at johnheim.net>
>>>> >>> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >>> > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>> >>> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Well, I'd presume because you don't make a lot of money as a
>>>> disability
>>>> >>> > advocate.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>> > From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
>>>> >>> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >>> > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:40 PM
>>>> >>> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >> I feel the same way.  First question that came to find...If
>>>> >>> >> these
>>>> >>  >>
>>>> people
>>>> >>> >> are
>>>> >>> >> so fantastic and can motivate everyone to get past their
>>>> disabilities, >> and
>>>> >>> >> they have learned so much in the four years they've been blind,
>>>> >> why
>>>> >> can't
>>>> >>> >> they maintain their house so it isn't falling down around them?
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Cindy
>>>> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>> >> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>>> >>> >> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 9:16 PM
>>>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Here We Go Again
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> I hate to be this way, but, how come I'm already skepticle? >>>
>>> Anyone
>>>> >> care
>>>> >>> >> to
>>>> >>> >> guess why?
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Sincerely,
>>>> >>> >> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Skype Name:
>>>> >>> >> barefootedray
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> On Dec 2, 2010, at 7:49 PM, Ryan O wrote:
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>> >>> Q From: Mary Watkins
>>>> >>> >>> To: MAG_News at mail4.wgbh.org
>>>> >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:06 PM
>>>> >>> >>> Subject: WGBH's Media Access Group Encourages Tuning into ABC'S
>>>> >>>  >>>
>>>> "Extreme
>>>> >>> >>> Makeover: Home Edition" on Sunday, December 5
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> WGBH's Media Access Group Encourages Tuning into ABC'S "Extreme
>>>> >>>  >>>
>>>> Makeover:
>>>> >>> >>> Home Edition"
>>>> >>> >>> on Sunday, December 5 (8-9pm, EST)
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> The Media Access Group at WGBH encourages all those interested
> in
>>>> >>> >>> inclusive
>>>> >>> >>> technology for people who are blind or have low vision to tune
>>>> >>> into
>>>> >>> >>> "Extreme
>>>> >>> >>> Makeover: Home Edition" this Sunday evening, December 5. While
> we
>>>> >>> can't
>>>> >>> >>> provide any specific information on what will be seen and heard
>>>> >>> (it
>>>> >>> would
>>>> >>> >>> spoil the surprise!), the episode promises to create much
> greater
>>>> >>> >>> awareness
>>>> >>> >>> of the services and products now available for people who have
>>>> >>>  >>>
>>>> limited or
>>>> >>> >>> no
>>>> >>> >>> sight.
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> Here is the information the production company has released in
>>>> >>>  >>>
>>>> advance
>>>> >>> >>> about
>>>> >>> >>> this episode:
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> The "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" team has selected the >>>
>>>> Anderson
>>>> >>> >>> Family
>>>> >>> >>> in Cleveland, Ohio. The family of four answered the call to >>>
>>>> action
>>>> >>> when
>>>> >>> >>> they
>>>> >>> >>> inspired the community to heighten their awareness of the >>>
>>>> obstacles
>>>> >>> >>> facing
>>>> >>> >>> the disabled in their community. Diving headlong into their
> work,
>>>> >>> Andre
>>>> >>> >>> and
>>>> >>> >>> Jasmine have dedicated their time to supporting and counseling
>>>> >>> the
>>>> >>> >>> disabled
>>>> >>> >>> by connecting them with resources to help them live and lead
> more
>>>> >>> >>> independent lives. The Andersons have proven to be the
> definitive
>>>> >>> role
>>>> >>> >>> models as they themselves lost their sight 4 years ago.
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> Empowered by their own obstacles, Andre and Jasmine have never
>>>> >>> let
>>>> >>> >>> anything
>>>> >>> >>> slow them down. Together they have teamed to complete grad >>>
>>>> school,
>>>> >>> run a
>>>> >>> >>> center for people with disabilities, created a support group,
> and
>>>> all
>>>> >>> >>> while
>>>> >>> >>> balancing life at home with their 2 boys (one of whom is
>>>> >>> >>> hearing
>>>> >>> >>> impaired).
>>>> >>> >>> Despite having lost their sight after their sons, Jasison and
>>>> Jahzion
>>>> >>> >>> were
>>>> >>> >>> born, Andre and Jasmine have rallied back and have embraced
> their
>>>> >>> >>> reality.
>>>> >>> >>> While they continue to empower their community, the family has
>>>> >>> hit a
>>>> >>> >>> rough
>>>> >>> >>> patch. Their home is falling apart around them and it has
>>>> >>> >>> become
>>>> >>> >>> complicated
>>>> >>> >>> and hazardous for them to live in especially in the face of how
>>>> their
>>>> >>> >>> needs
>>>> >>> >>> continue to grow.
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> On September 29th the Andersons will have some changes in sight
>>>> >>> when
>>>> >>> Ty
>>>> >>> >>> Pennington, designers Michael Maloney, Tracy Huston, and Xzibit
>>>> >>>  >>>
>>>> deliver a
>>>> >>> >>> "Smart House" in just 7 days. Local builders Marous Brothers
>>>> >>> >>>  >>>
>>>> Construction
>>>> >>> >>> and community volunteers will rebuild the structure and give
> them
>>>> the >>> key
>>>> >>> >>> to
>>>> >>> >>> live above and beyond their wildest dreams. The Andersons will
>>>> >>>  >>>
>>>> vacation
>>>> >>> >>> in
>>>> >>> >>> Crested Butte, Colorado.
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> About "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition"
>>>> >>> >>> The Emmy-award winning reality program "Extreme Makeover: Home
>>>> >>>  >>>
>>>> Edition,"
>>>> >>> >>> now
>>>> >>> >>> in its 8th season, is produced by Endemol USA, a division of
>>>> >>> >>>  >>>
>>>> Endemol
>>>> >>> >>> Holding. It's executive-produced Brady Connell and George >>>
>>>> Verschoor.
>>>> >>> >>> David
>>>> >>> >>> Goldberg is Chairman, Endemol North America. The show airs >>>
>>>> Sundays
>>>> >>> from
>>>> >>> >>> 8:00-9:00 p.m., ET on ABC.
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> About the Media Access Group at WGBH
>>>> >>> >>> The Media Access Group at WGBH, which includes a Services >>>
>>>> division
>>>> >>> and a
>>>> >>> >>> research and development division--the Carl and Ruth Shapiro
>>>> >>> >>>  >>>
>>>> Family
>>>> >>> >>> National
>>>> >>> >>> Center for Accessible Media--has pioneered and delivered >>>
>>>> >>> >>>  >>>
> captioned
>>>> >>> and
>>>> >>> >>> described media for nearly four decades to people in their
> homes,
>>>> >>> >>> classrooms, at work and in the community. And the Media Access
>>>> >>> Group
>>>> >>> >>> continues to develop new solutions to access challenges as >>>
>>>> technology,
>>>> >>> >>> and
>>>> >>> >>> the way we all consume media, evolve. Members of the group's
>>>> >>> >>>  >>>
>>>> collective
>>>> >>> >>> staff represent the leading experts in their fields and their
>>>> success >>> is
>>>> >>> >>> exemplified by a history of accomplishments and continuous >>>
>>>> growth,
>>>> >>> the
>>>> >>> >>> integration of innovative products and services into society at
>>>> >>>  >>>
>>>> large,
>>>> >>> >>> and
>>>> >>> >>> the enthusiastic support of the audiences served, including 36
>>>> >>>  >>>
>>>> million
>>>> >>> >>> people who are deaf, hard of hearing, blind or have low vision.
>>>> >>> More
>>>> >>> >>> information about the Media Access Group at WGBH can be found
> at:
>>>> >>> >>> http://access.wgbh.org.
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> Contact:
>>>> >>> >>> Mary Watkins
>>>> >>> >>> mary_watkins at wgbh.org
>>>> >>> >>> 617 300-3700
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> RyanO
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> >>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> >>> >>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>
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>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
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