[nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(

Steve Jacobson steve.jacobson at visi.com
Fri Jul 16 20:11:02 UTC 2010 

John,

I also hope that all of us can avoid the sort of emotional detours that past debates have taken.  Over the past couple of years, I have come to see you as someone 
with whom I have sometimes disagreed sharply on issues but as one who generally does seek understanding through your questions and your comments.  I also 
believe that anyone who aspouses a philosophy has to be sure they understand that philosophy so I attempt to give thought to the positions I take.  In addition, a 
philosophy has to be a solid guiding influence but it can't be a straight-jacket.  A philosophy will not always have the detailed answers but can provide an approach.  
I am therefore going to take the risk of sharing some thoughts on this subject.  The risk isn't just that you might disagree with me but that others might as well.  

First let's be certain to dispose of thoughts of a possible bias on my part.  I am old enough to remember when one could live in Minnesota and be both a Packer and 
a Vikings fan.  In other words, I grew up having respect for Vince Lombardi and the Packers of the 1960's while cheering the Vikings expansion team of the 60's as 
they grew toward their successes in the 1970's.  .  While I don't claim to know how Lombardi would view our philosophy, I feel our philosophy very much lives up to 
your statement that "the most important thing in life for a blind person is striving to reduce blindness to a mere nuisance."  There is a good deal of room for 
interpretation there, though, and we may well have disagreements there.  Still, using our philosophy to help all of us be more than we would otherwise be is in my 
opinion the most important thing we accomplish.  While it is true that not everyone will achieve the same level of success or perhaps not even "get there" as you 
said, it also convlicts with our philosophy and would conflict with Lombardi's to decide too soon that an individual was not going to "get there."

Here is where I think we have differences that need to be explored.  You said, "no one has any right to tell 
anyone else how to live their lives."  A philosophy is a blueprint how to live one's life, isn't it?  If not, what is the point?  Would Lombardi have been satisfied if his 
players told him that they really do want to win, but practices don't fit into their concept of a good time?  I believe that the reason you see Lombardi's philosophy as 
going a step further than ours is because you arbitrarily reject in our philosophy what you accept in Lombardi's, that a philosophy has to have an effect or a guiding 
influence on one's life.  It can't be only words one says while one goes off and lives as one would have lived without the philosophy.

Having said that, I also think you have a narrow view of how our philosophy tries to dictate how people live.  Sometimes you confuse politics with philosophy, for 
example.  You confuse the means with the ends.  While positions we take should have some philosophical basis, they also are determined by priorities and even 
other influences that can be temporary.  We are also an organization of people, human beings, who don't see everything uniformly.  Our collective view of our 
philosophy has a good deal of commonality, but there are and always will be variations in how our philosophy influences our positions.  I am not happy with every 
position we take, but as long as I am happy with most positions, I will continue being active.  I think this is how most members feel.  I also accept that there is going 
to be a degree of variation in positions even within a philosophy, based upon circumstances and also upon opinions of individuals.  There has to be some ability for a 
philosophy to evolve without loosing sight of its major premises.

What does it mean to reduce blindness to the level of a physical nuisance?  This may well be another area of disagreement.  Our position, as I see it, is that the first 
component of accomplishing this is to educate ourselves as to what are truths and what are not about blindness.  We learn about blindness first from society and 
therefore share many of the misconceptions about it.  From our own experiences, we start to see that not everything we learned is true, but we can only carry that so 
far using our own experiences.  Collectively, we can learn much more, and our collective experience can move us further as individuals than we could have 
achieved on our own.  

The second component is learning as much as we can how to fit into the world as it is.  Dr. Jernigan made this point often both in written speeches and in personal 
interactions.  I do not believe this is important because it was some sort of holy dictum, I believe it is important because he made a good case for it and it fits with my 
own experience.  Anything we can do to fit into the world as it is we can also control.  What the world does for us we can't control as well.

The third component is what do we need the world to do for us and why.  I think the "why" is an important part of this component.  We have to understand that 
what the world giveth, the world can taketh away.  <smile>  Society evolves, and we have rights under the law that we didn't have fifty years ago.  My assumption is 
that laws will not revert to what they were fifty years ago, but it needs to be recognized that laws are also not permanent.  It is therefore a mistake to depend upon 
current laws for that which we can do for ourselves with some effort.  It is why I see what the world should do for us as the lowest level of making blindness a 
nuisance.  If we only care about ourselves and we're over, say, fifty, we should get the world to do as much for us as we can get away with.  If we care about future 
generations, though, we need to continue considering what we can change and what the world should change knowing that what we can change can't be easily 
taken away from us.  

If I believe the above to be a logical approach, of course I will try to influence how others live their lives.  At the very least, that is politics.  I have that right and they 
have a right not to listen to me or to work against whatever I am working to achieve.  One cannot just decide their position isn't influencing another's life, the action 
itself defines that.  I would maintain that all of us who are blind have an impact on the rest of us.  Just because some of us say we are not trying to impact others 
doesn't mean that our actions don't have an impact.  That isn't something an individual can decide.  An individual can only choose whether he or she takes 
responsibility for the impact their actions have.  

A big part of our philosophy, in my opinion, is to first try to overcome an obstacle independently.  If that doesn't work, find a way that allows us the most 
independence that we can have to deal with it.  If we need help, try to find a way to give back.   This seems to me to be a part of our approach that you sometimes 
see as telling people how to livwe their lives.  Because you don't see it as acceptable, it results in your thought that part of our philosophy is missing, therefore 
leaving a gap.  I see you as living a lot of our philosophy as I have expressed it.  Where we have run into problems with one another is that you have sometimes 
defined my position as telling others how to live their lives while you have defined your positions as not doing that.  I would maintain that both of our positions impact 
others and to some degree, determine how their lives will be lived.  

Before closing, I want to get off of the philosophical a little.  I think we always have to remember that we are all going to achieve different levels of independence.  
We can't forget about our blind brothers and sisters who have been placed at a disadvantage by circumstances beyond their control.  We also can't forget that the 
line between being successfully employed and unemployed is really a pretty narrow line.  I can remember when I was looking for a job getting to the point where I 
wondered if I would find one.  Some of us may not have the right strengths for today's jobs through no fault of our own.  You can always find horror stories about 
what happened to this or that individual at a large convention such as ours, but if you could see some of what I have seen, how we arrange to provide assistance in 
an unobtrusive way, how some members help others, and how persons who have trouble traveling beat the odds by getting to their destination getting some of that 
good feeling from winning that you mentioned, I can't help but think some of this might make more sense to you.  Winning doesn't have to mean getting a job.  It can 
mean getting to a restaurant when you didn't think you could.  It can mean learning to ride an escalator for the first time when you have always been afraid of doing 
it.  What I see when I look at our members is not thousands of well-adjusted blind people who travel perfectly and are employed, but rather individuals who are doing 
their best to make the most of themselves as blind people, whatever that happens to be.  

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:02:00 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:

>I'm impressed with the number of swimmers on this list. Its a good sign, 
>IMO. It says something about the NFB philosophy.

>I may have given the impression that I disapprove of the NFB philosophy but 
>nothing could be further from the truth. Its very close to my personal 
>philosophy of life which is borrowed from Vince Lombardi.

>A lot of people think Vince Lombardi was the mean old coach who would do 
>anything to win. No, that was not what he was like at all. His players loved 
>him and still gather to meet each year to honor him. What he believed was 
>that life's greatest moments come when you meet a challenge and over come 
>it. That's what life is about. That is what it is to be human.  You've got 
>to have the will to win, to be the best you can be. Strive for perfection, 
>knowing you'll never obtain it but on the way there, you'll find three 
>things. First, you'll do more than you ever thought you could. Second, 
>you'll find the struggle itself can be fun. And third, , when you do 
>succeed, it will be the greatest feeling you've ever had. So when I went 
>blind, I decided I was going to be the best damn blind guy I could be. I 
>learned braille, tried to learn to play the violin, got a guide dog, and got 
>back into running and swimming.

>The beauty of Lombardi's philosophy is that whenever you run into adversity, 
>you don't say, "Oh, woe is me. Life is so hard."  Instead the response is , 
>"Well, what are you going to do about it?" You don't seek out adversity but 
>when it comes, embrace it. Take it on.

>Not to create controversy again but like the NFB philosophy, the problem 
>with Vince Lombardi's philosophy is that it is easily morphed into a 
>mentality of showing contempt for losers. You can't live Lombardi's 
>philosophy and be satisfied -- well ever really since perfection is 
>impossible to obtain. You can always get better. But not everybody has the 
>same strengths and not everyone can win.  And no one has any right to tell 
>anyone else how to live their lives.

>anyway, I think you can see the simularity between Lombardi's philosophy of 
>life and the NFB philosophy. I would say, though, that Lombardi's philosophy 
>is a step beyond that of the NFB in that it gives you a sort of method for 
>carrying it out. The idea of never settling for anything short of success is 
>implied in the NFB philosophy but not spelled out. I think Lombardi's take 
>on the NFB philosophy would have been that the most important thing in life 
>for a blind person is striving to reduce blindness to a mere nuisance.  You 
>may never get there but the most important thing is to never be satisfied 
>until it is.

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Steve Johnson" <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
>To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 7:10 PM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(


>> Hi John,
>>
>> I think it is just cool that you are swimming.  I think the best I would 
>> at
>> my skill level is circles!  Good for you in wanting to be a tri-athelete!
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:25 AM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>
>> If you swim laps and if you have a way to stay on your side of the lane, 
>> I'd
>> like to hear about it.  I believe most lap pools have the swimmers keep
>> right like on a road. You swim up the right side of the lane and on the 
>> way
>> back you come down the other side. The best I've been able to do is to 
>> swim
>> with my right arm flailing out so that i can touch the lane divider on 
>> every
>> stroke.  That doesn't really work very well.
>>
>> It isn't really very helpful to tell me my skills need to improve. After
>> all, I already asked for tips on how to improve.
>>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:14 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>
>>
>>>A lane for yourself alone?  Why?  Is it your swimming skills that
>>>vastly need improvement; or, perhaps your blindness skills?
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> E-Mail:
>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>> Skype Name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:04 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>
>>>> So you're a swimmer, huh?  Do you ever have to share a lane? If so,
>>>> how do you do it? I have never managed to do that successfully. Here
>>>> at the pool at the University of Wisconsin, I call ahead and they set
>>>> a lane aside for me so I can have it to myself. Its only a minor
>>>> sacrifice because there are usually several lanes with only one
>>>> person in them. So when they reserve a lane for me, it only means one
>>>> other person has to share a lane.
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever done any open water swimming? I would like to enter a
>>>> triathlon but I don't like swimming tethered to someone else. I just
>>>> can't get comfortable doing that. It effects my breathing and I just
>>>> can't swim normally.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wm. Ritchhart"
>>>> <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:04 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I really like the new digital talking book player.  I do wish it was
>>>>> still smaller and lighter.  With all my swimming gear, lunch,
>>>>> back-up cane and everything else I have in my gym bag; it is still
>>>>> too heavy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Steve Johnson
>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:22 PM
>>>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>
>>>>> John, I have not tried one myself yet, so this is good to know.
>>>>> Thanks, Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 3:26 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>
>>>>> Man, I just got one of those new digital book players from the
>>>>> National Library Service.  You might wonder why a computer nerd like
>>>>> myself took so long to ask for one of those things. Well, I guess
>>>>> mostly the reason is that I have 2 tape players that I bought myself
>>>>> plus the one from NLS. So now I have to use the player from the NLS
>>>>> all of the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> But holy cow, is this thing nice. I downloaded a book and put it on
>>>>> a USB thumb drive and was listening to a book amybe 3 minutes after
>>>>> getting started. And navigation within the book is very nice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your tax dollars at work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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