[nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?

ckrugman at sbcglobal.net ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Thu Jul 22 17:09:51 UTC 2010


The issue of Blackboard has come up on some of the technical lists and there 
are definite issues regarding its accessibility that have not been resolved.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?


>I got my job 8 years before the ADA. I am blind and also have brittle bones
> and so use a wheelchair.  Because of the bone problem my hearing is also
> diminished so I wear hearing aids. I consider the worst disability to be 
> the
> fact that I am fragile -- it is easy to run into something and break a 
> bone,
> or reach around for something and fracture a rib, etc.  This is not only
> painful but also a social nuisance -- it isn't fun having the paramedics
> transport you out of a social event because you have just broken a major
> bone doing almost nothing.    It also isn't fun trying to warn people 
> about
> it before you go anywhere.  But I deal with it.
> After working for a number of years I finally went on disability because 
> of
> a "perfect storm" of events.  This was the first time in my life I chose 
> to
> "give in" and just say no to continuing the battle.  I think it was the
> right decision. Now I would love to work again if I were close to a job
> location. I live in a small town.
> I am looking over the various places to take classes online.  I enrolled 
> in
> a class from National American University just to see what it was like. 
> It
> was quite interesting, especially the student "blackboard" and virtual
> library.  The documentation said the interface had been tested with the 
> jaws
> screen reader, but I ran into some problems. As a result I am postponing 
> the
> class until the fall.
>
> Anyway, has anyone else complete an online course from this school? or any
> school that uses webCT's online black board?
> I think it is a great system, if I can get it all working with my screen
> reader.
> --le
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <Terry.Powers at nih.gov>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
>
> I sure agree with you!  I fit in the group of multi handicapped.  I have a
> sight problem, epelepsi, a mild hearing problem and back problems. I have 
> to
> use an amplifier on my phone and can not walk for long distances, but have
> been working for the federal government for 25 years.  I also use speech 
> and
> braille on my computer.  Short term memory has hindered my advancement in
> the computer field.  My theory is, where there is a will, there is a way.
>
> Terry Powers from MD
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net [mailto:ckrugman at sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:56 AM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
> As far as disabilities go it is probably much easier to adapt to being
> blind. Blind people unless they have difficulty walking or a mobility
> impairment can still climb steps to access buildings and can get audio 
> cues
> to their surroundings. There are many people out there who do not know how
> to communicate with a deaf person and do not enunciate clearly when they
> speak making it more difficult for deaf people who read lips. Blind people
> are able to process what they hear or read which is difficult for people
> with learning or perceptual disabilities. Yes, being blind at times can be
> an inconvenience but it is not insurmountable. Of course, when telling 
> this
> to sighted people or those who are going blind there is the emotional and
> loss factors they need to be taken in to account. These were some of the
> examples that I used when speaking to groups in the past or when I did
> counseling. Having had friends and worked with clients in all disability
> groups I dealt with these issues firsthand and much of this was prior to 
> ADA
> and other legislation.
> chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <Terry.Powers at nih.gov>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 4:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>
>
>>I do not know about that!  I have said many a time, I would rather be
>>blind than deaf.  I do not know where I would be with out the world of
>>sound and music.  Also the sence of tutch is a beautiful thing.
>>
>> Terry Powers
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim [mailto:jp100 at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 1:12 AM
>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>> And yet, nothing beats vision, huh??
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 8:10 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>> I've seen a guide dog bark at her image in a mirror!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>
>>
>>>I don't know Mike.  That's pretty funny.
>>> Of course, I still don't think it beat the time my two friends and I
>>>were  walking together at an Austin mall.  One of my friends, the one
>>>with "the  most vision" told us to slow down or stop so as not to run
>>>into the other  blind people coming toward us.  I asked what other
>>>blind people because I  didn't hear any canes or anything.  As hard as
>>>he tried avoiding them, we  couldn't.  We walked a bit, and all of a
>>>sudden, he ran into something.
>>> He
>>> realized what had happened.  He was looking at some sort of mirror or
>>>at  least at our reflections and thought there were three other blind
>>>folks  coming our way.
>>> He couldn't help but bust a gut and ended up on the floor laughing
>>>hysterically.  I'm sure passers-by wondered what the heck was
>>>happening  there.  I'm sure the blind folks were noticed after he
>>>began laughing  without control.
>>> JP
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:30 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>
>>> Yeah; it took her a minute to figure out why I was laughing and then
>>> she sat
>>>
>>> down on the curb and howled with mirth.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 2:09 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mike, bet the lady chuckled, too.
>>>>
>>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 2:47 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I once knew a lady who was unfamiliar with my neighborhood and who
>>>>>said hello to every lamp post for a block because she wasn't used to
>>>>>them being
>>>
>>>>>so close to the sidewalk! In truth, it *was* funny!
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mike Bullis" <mabullis at hotmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 8:21 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not knowing what it was, I hit a bush with my cane the other day
>>>>>> as I was walking quickly by and said excuse me.  I thought it was
>>>>>> funny.
>>>>>> Although I
>>>>>> know that many disagree with me about this, I simply find lots of
>>>>>> things funny that are politically incorrect or self deprecating.
>>>>>> Humor, perhaps sadly, but truly, is very much about the put down.
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:44 PM
>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ray:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In any discussion such as this, it's damnably dangerous to
>>>>>> generalize because almost universally, there are exceptions to any
>>>>>> rule. But with respect to humor regarding aspects of blindness, I
>>>>>> think we must ask ourselves *why* we (or our sighted coleagues)
>>>>>> find any particular blindness-related incident funny. Let me give you
>>>>>> an example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many years ago, I remember a commercial for a particular optical
>>>>>> company touting the need to wear good glasses (this was before
>>>>>> lasic) by using a skit whereby a mom's kids on a camping trip with
>>>>>> her stole her glasses and laughed themselves silly when she got up
>>>>>> in the morning over how ridiculous she looked stumbling about and
>>>>>> doing awkward things because she couldn't see.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That commercial burned my posterior because it was pure cruelty
>>>>>> for the kids
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to laugh about something the mom couldn't help because she wasn't
>>>>>> trained as
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a blind person and had I been her, I'd have tanned their hides.
>>>>>> This sort of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thing is the reason I find almost all slapstick comedy unappealing.
>>>>>> It's
>>>>>> basically cruelty in another guise. And if (as in Mr. Magoo) it
>>>>>> gives the impression that all vision-impaired persons are like
>>>>>> that, it sets us back immeasurably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But something like forgetting to turn a coffee cup over when
>>>>>> getting it out of the cupboard and absent-mindedly pouring coffee
>>>>>> all over the counter as a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> result -- that's just plain funny because I knew better and had my
>>>>>> head in the clouds rather than paying attention to what I was
>>>>>> doing as I should have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You see what I'm driving at? Do we laugh over our blindness
>>>>>> because it's funny or because we are laughing at what we take to
>>>>>> be our misfortune.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What we in NFB bridle at our two assumptions: (a) that others
>>>>>> (including
>>>>>> ourselves) assume that we need help when we may not and (b) that
>>>>>> we may falsely assume that we can't do something so elect not to
>>>>>> try. Every one
>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> us (including those of us who are sighted) use help when we need
>>>>>> it and/or when it's convenient for us and others. Where this gets
>>>>>> us into trouble is when we ask for help so often that people don't
>>>>>> think we can do without it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But basically, it all comes down to how we view ourselves mediated
>>>>>> by our view of blindness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:33 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, well, you see John, here's the thing.  As I see it, I don't
>>>>>>> think that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the NFB philosophy is looking to diminish blindness itself;
>>>>>>> rather, as I understand it, the NFB is trying to make blindness
>>>>>>> itself a mere nucence according to the perceptions of both the
>>>>>>> sighted and blind alike.  We tend
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to see ourselves as others see us.  That includes the blind as well.
>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a fact of human nature that when you've got a cause to fight, and
>>>>>>> the need
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for help from others seems to fly in the face of any forward
>>>>>>> movement in that cause, there tends to be at least a little
>>>>>>> personal or professional embarrassment at the idea of needing
>>>>>>> help; especially when that need for help and the taking of it,
>>>>>>> (how ever badly needed) would even appear to set back the cause
>>>>>>> for which one is fighting.  I note the most recent issue of "The
>>>>>>> Braille Monitor" for July 2010.  The "Ask Mrs. Whsoit column
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is particularly worth paying attention to.  Why?  Because in that
>>>>>>> column, one of the letter writers indicate d that they got the
>>>>>>> impression that the independent blind in the NFB always would
>>>>>>> brag about how they could always find their way through airports
>>>>>>> and never needed help; and therefore, that one was not a true
>>>>>>> federationist if one either needed or accepted help regardless of
>>>>>>> how much
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that help was actually needed.  Barbara Pierce, in her answer,
>>>>>>> indicated that she wondered whether she and the letter writer
>>>>>>> were reading the same issues of "The Braille Monitor".  Here, I
>>>>>>> think the letter writer could have made a stronger case by
>>>>>>> actually sighting issue and articles.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> truth of the matter be known, I too was once under the same
>>>>>>> impression as the letter writer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, I'll give you another.  The subject of laughter.  Once, on
>>>>>>> this list,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I made an attempt to explore this issue in depth but it didn't go
>>>>>>> very far.  I sighted what I believed at the time to be
>>>>>>> inconsistencies in what some leaders in the federation were
>>>>>>> saying and human reality.  It's human to laugh at things which
>>>>>>> are truly funny; even things blindness related.
>>>>>>> Some among the federation leadership, (barbara Pierce for
>>>>>>> example) said things which I took to be the attitude that it was
>>>>>>> not acceptable for a blind person to laugh at anything blindness
>>>>>>> related; even if it was genuinely funny.  But this philosophy, if
>>>>>>> you live and breathe it literally, tends to deny human reality.
>>>>>>> What say y'all?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm just trying to poke at a few points here to see what we can
>>>>>>> go with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 10:51 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ah! Actually, you bring up an exciting possibility that never
>>>>>>>> occured to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, I can't honestly say that I've been arguing that the NFB
>>>>>>>> philosophy should be modified. The trouble is that I've always
>>>>>>>> believed that an advocacy group cannot be effective when its own
>>>>>>>> philosophy is that the problem it is organized around is fairly
>>>>>>>> minor. Why bother working for change when blindness is a mere
>>>>>>>> nuiscance anyway?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're probably saying, "That's not waht the NFB philosophy means."
>>>>>>>> And I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> think it should be clear that I know that especially after my
>>>>>>>> dissertation about how similar  the NFB philosophy is to 
>>>>>>>> Lombardi's.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> problem, as I see it, is that it is impossible to avoid having
>>>>>>>> the philosophy to morph into something that blames the victim.
>>>>>>>> It inevitably
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> will lead to a situation where its a sin to ask for an
>>>>>>>> accomodation, any accomodation.  The only solution I see is to
>>>>>>>> get rid of the philosophy all together.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, that's the only solution I saw until now. Actually, I'm
>>>>>>>> really excited about the idea you bring up. Can the philosophy
>>>>>>>> be tweaked to address the problems I have seen? I'll admit I'm
>>>>>>>> very skeptical. But it sure is worth some thought and/or
>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually, I'd consider it a major victory if someone, anyone,
>>>>>>>> would acknowledge the problem itself. How can the NFB be
>>>>>>>> effective as an advocacy group when its own philosophy is that
>>>>>>>> with proper training, blindness can be reduced to a mere
>>>>>>>> nuiscance? If I were President of the NFB (scary thought, I
>>>>>>>> know), I could go on for days about how those
>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>> ideas are not really contradictory. But as a practical matter, I
>>>>>>>> just do not think they can work together. And you've got to
>>>>>>>> admit that on the surface, they seem quite at odds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr"
>>>>>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:34 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] philosophy taken to another level then?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Okay John,  So, let me see if I understand you correctly.  What
>>>>>>>>> some of us have viewed as your attacks on the NFB philosophy
>>>>>>>>> are actually not attacks at all; rather, they are attempts on
>>>>>>>>> your part to help the NFB fulfill and perhaps even improve on
>>>>>>>>> its  philosophy?  I want you to understand that I do not intend
>>>>>>>>> my question as an attack upon you; but, instead, I truly want
>>>>>>>>> to see if this is where you are going.
>>>>>>>>> Because,
>>>>>>>>> if so, I think we may have the beginnings of a rather forward
>>>>>>>>> thinking discussion about a substantive way of moving forward
>>>>>>>>> that if we advance it to the leadership of the NFB in exactly
>>>>>>>>> the right way, we might perhaps gain ground not otherwise
>>>>>>>>> obtainable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 9:02 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm impressed with the number of swimmers on this list. Its a
>>>>>>>>>> good sign, IMO. It says something about the NFB philosophy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I may have given the impression that I disapprove of the NFB
>>>>>>>>>> philosophy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but nothing could be further from the truth. Its very close to
>>>>>>>>>> my personal philosophy of life which is borrowed from Vince
>>>>>>>>>> Lombardi.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A lot of people think Vince Lombardi was the mean old coach
>>>>>>>>>> who would do anything to win. No, that was not what he was
>>>>>>>>>> like at all. His players loved him and still gather to meet
>>>>>>>>>> each year to honor him.
>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> he believed was that life's greatest moments come when you
>>>>>>>>>> meet a challenge and over come it. That's what life is about.
>>>>>>>>>> That is what it is to be human.  You've got to have the will
>>>>>>>>>> to win, to be the best you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> can be. Strive for perfection, knowing you'll never obtain it
>>>>>>>>>> but on the way there, you'll find three things. First, you'll
>>>>>>>>>> do more than you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ever thought you could. Second, you'll find the struggle
>>>>>>>>>> itself can be fun. And third, , when you do succeed, it will
>>>>>>>>>> be the greatest feeling you've ever had. So when I went blind,
>>>>>>>>>> I decided I was going to be the best damn blind guy I could
>>>>>>>>>> be. I learned braille, tried to learn to play the violin, got
>>>>>>>>>> a guide dog, and got back into running and swimming.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The beauty of Lombardi's philosophy is that whenever you run
>>>>>>>>>> into adversity, you don't say, "Oh, woe is me. Life is so hard."
>>>>>>>>>> Instead
>>>>>>>>>> the response is , "Well, what are you going to do about it?"
>>>>>>>>>> You don't seek out adversity but when it comes, embrace it.
>>>>>>>>>> Take it on.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not to create controversy again but like the NFB philosophy,
>>>>>>>>>> the problem with Vince Lombardi's philosophy is that it is
>>>>>>>>>> easily morphed into a mentality of showing contempt for
>>>>>>>>>> losers. You can't live Lombardi's philosophy and be satisfied
>>>>>>>>>> -- well ever really since perfection is impossible to obtain.
>>>>>>>>>> You can always get better. But not everybody has the same
>>>>>>>>>> strengths and not everyone can win.  And no one has any right
>>>>>>>>>> to tell anyone else how to live their lives.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> anyway, I think you can see the simularity between Lombardi's
>>>>>>>>>> philosophy of life and the NFB philosophy. I would say,
>>>>>>>>>> though, that Lombardi's philosophy is a step beyond that of
>>>>>>>>>> the NFB in that it gives
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you a sort of method for carrying it out. The idea of never
>>>>>>>>>> settling for anything short of success is implied in the NFB
>>>>>>>>>> philosophy but not spelled out. I think Lombardi's take on the
>>>>>>>>>> NFB philosophy would have been that the most important thing
>>>>>>>>>> in life for a blind person is striving to reduce blindness to
>>>>>>>>>> a mere nuisance.  You may never get there but the most
>>>>>>>>>> important thing is to never be satisfied until it is.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Johnson"
>>>>>>>>>> <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 7:10 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think it is just cool that you are swimming.  I think the
>>>>>>>>>>> best I would at my skill level is circles!  Good for you in
>>>>>>>>>>> wanting to be a tri-athelete!
>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:25 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you swim laps and if you have a way to stay on your side
>>>>>>>>>>> of the lane, I'd like to hear about it.  I believe most lap
>>>>>>>>>>> pools have the swimmers keep right like on a road. You swim
>>>>>>>>>>> up the right side of the lane and on the way back you come
>>>>>>>>>>> down the other side. The best I've been able to do is
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> swim
>>>>>>>>>>> with my right arm flailing out so that i can touch the lane
>>>>>>>>>>> divider
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>>> stroke.  That doesn't really work very well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't really very helpful to tell me my skills need to
>>>>>>>>>>> improve.
>>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>> all, I already asked for tips on how to improve.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:14 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] swimming (was: Bard(
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A lane for yourself alone?  Why?  Is it your swimming skills
>>>>>>>>>>>> that vastly need improvement; or, perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>>>>>> skills?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>>>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:04 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you're a swimmer, huh?  Do you ever have to share a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lane? If so, how do you do it? I have never managed to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that successfully.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the pool at the University of Wisconsin, I call ahead
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and they set a lane aside for me so I can have it to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself. Its only a minor sacrifice because there are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> usually several lanes with only one person in them. So when
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they reserve a lane for me, it only means one other person
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has to share a lane.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever done any open water swimming? I would like to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> triathlon but I don't like swimming tethered to someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> else. I just can't get comfortable doing that. It effects
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my breathing and I just can't swim normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wm. Ritchhart"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:04 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the new digital talking book player.  I do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wish it was still smaller and lighter.  With all my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> swimming gear, lunch, back-up cane and everything else I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have in my gym bag; it is still too heavy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Steve Johnson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:22 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, I have not tried one myself yet, so this is good to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of John G. Heim
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 3:26 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Bard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, I just got one of those new digital book players from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the National Library Service.  You might wonder why a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer nerd like myself took so long to ask for one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those things. Well, I guess mostly the reason is that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have 2 tape players that I bought myself plus the one from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NLS. So now I have to use the player from the NLS all of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But holy cow, is this thing nice. I downloaded a book and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a USB thumb drive and was listening to a book amybe 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes after getting started. And navigation within the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book is very nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your tax dollars at work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org 





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