[nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian signals

Wed May 26 13:33:07 UTC 2010

All you need to do is google "research audible walk signal".  There is 
plenty of information out that that will help you decide for yourself about 
audible walk signals. I'm confident that anyone reasonably informed on this 
subject will agree with me.

Here's a really good place to start:
http://www.apsguide.org/appendix_c_signal.cfm

Have you noticed that my posts are chuck full of links to documentation for 
the things I say whereas those of the people who disagree with me have none? 
This is always the case on this list in every single debate we've ever had. 
None of these debates are ever a case of dueling facts. In each ccase, I 
have all the facts and my opponents have nothing but unsubstantiated 
opinions and insults.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <Terry.Powers at nih.gov>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian signals

> If we are not tought correct mobility skills then what does a blind person 
> do when the power goes out.  You have to rely on your sences because when 
> the power goes out then the signals will malfunction.  I am not saying 
> they can not be helpful on some busy streets, but a blind person should 
> not soley depend on the signal.  If a signal is used, it should be used in 
> conjunction with your sences and your sences make the correct choice as to 
> when to cross.  If you do not listen, you could walk right into the path 
> of a turning car, just because the signal told you, to cross.
>
> Terry Powers
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dewey Bradley [mailto:dewey.bradley at att.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:45 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian 
> signals
>
> Maybe you should get some travel training, I don't like them because when 
> the dam things are makeing all the raket, I can't hear the traffic.
> This is a fact of life, people don't always stop for a red light, I want 
> to be able to hear them.
> Maybe someone on the list can explain to you how blind people are able to 
> tell when the light is ready for you to cross.
> These things are where sighted people get there negative stereotypes from.
> They think that we can't do anything for our selves, like open a door, 
> cross the street, find a seat, carry our food, take care of our kids, and 
> much more.
> Its guys like you that hold us back.
> That's just one reason that they wont hire us, they think we can't do 
> anything.
> I know someone else like you, he wont even go to the store or to the bank 
> by him self, and he knows how to, but wants everyone to know that blind 
> people are stupid and helpless.
> Maybe you should get rehab to send you to one of the NFB training centers.
> I whent to the Colorado center myself, they are good, I'm not shore about 
> the other 2, but I'm shore they are good as well.
> They can show you how to tell when the light changes, and when and how to 
> cross the street
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian 
> signals
>
>
> Yes, of course I need audible walk signals.
>
> I hope you're not trying to imply that I shouldn't need audible walk 
> signals. By that logic, visible walk signals are also unnecessary. That 
> would imply that cities all over the globe have wasted millions of dollars 
> installing visible walk signals for sighted people.  If you don't believe 
> that visible walk signals help sighted people cross streets more safely, 
> you should contact the traffic engineers in your city and they will set 
> you straight. Just as visible signals help sighted people cross streets 
> more safely, audible signals help blind pedestrians cross streets more 
> safely.
>
> Here is a link to some information about audible walk signals helping 
> blind people cross streets more safely:
> http://www.apsguide.org/appendix_c_research.cfm
>
> If you have any reason to believe that audible signals do not help blind 
> pedestrians cross the street more safely, I would like to see it.  It 
> certainly seems counter-intuitive to say that audible signals would not 
> make blind pedestrians safer. If you're going to say that, you are 
> obligated to provide some evidence.  The NFB should not be organizing 
> protests against something that by all appearances would make blind 
> pedestrians safer unless they have some compelling reason to believe it 
> doesn't work.
>
> Otherwise, the NFB should stop playing games with the lives of blind 
> pedestrians.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at att.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian 
> signals
>
>
> Why do you think the NFB  should change its stance?
> Do you need them?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian 
> signals
>
>
> As recently as 2003, the NFB organized protests against audible  walk
> signals:
> http://nfb.org/legacy/bm/bm03/bm0301/bm030103.htm
>
> Personally, I feel there is no more important issue on which the NFB needs
> to change its stance. This is about as wrong-headed as an organization can
> be.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>; "Florida Association of
> Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
> Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; "NFB Florida"
> <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; "NFB of Florida parents" <fopbc at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Dianne Ketts" <dianne at ketts.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 8:20 AM
> Subject: [nfb-talk] Explanation of traffic lights and pedestrian signals
>
>
> The FCB is streaming their convention and I am currently listening to a
> speech by an O & M instructor, Dianne Ketts, who happens to work for the
> Lighthouse of Central Florida. I know Dianne personally and find her to be 
> a
> very progressive-thinking O & M instructor. She is explaining the various
> kinds of Pedestrian signals, traffic lights and the use of audible
> pedestrian signals. She particularly emphasizes that you need proper O & M
> techniques and training whether or not the audible indications exists,
> saying that the audible signal only indicates that the walk signal is
> showing, not that it is safe to cross the street. I find her outlook
> refreshing and the lecture fascinating.  It is interesting to learn how 
> the
> various lights are actuated as well as how the audible pedestrian signals
> work. I think it would be of great use to have an explanation of these
> various signals and the technology regarding APS'S AT A FUTURE NFBF
> CONVENTION AND EVEN POSSIBLY AT AN NFB national convention. I really 
> believe
> with traffic patterns changing, with more and more cars on our roadways,
> this information is useful for us to know. She says, for example, that
> whether there is an APS or not, there are some intersections where it is
> imperative for people to find the push-button. Really interesting!
>
> Sherri
>
>
> Sherri Brun, NFBF Secretary and Newsline(r) Coordinator
> E-mail:  flmom2006 at gmail.com
> http://www.nfbnewslineonline.org
> http://www.nfbflorida.org
>
> "Don't give up something you want forever for something you want only for
> now!"
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