[nfb-talk] Fw: Implantedchip'allows blindpeopleto detectobjects'
Loren Wakefield
isaiah5719 at mchsi.com
Thu Nov 4 21:14:21 UTC 2010
I guess I must be maladjusted as well. I have not figured out a way to
enjoy a sunrise or sunset. I have not figured out a way to enjoy the
constellations. I have not'''''
I do not know if I would take this chip or not. It is a good point that it
would be a major disruption in my life. It would be a number of changes.
Is it worth it? I doubt any of us can honest say hes or no to that. I do
believe very strongly that such research should be pursued. But I cannot at
all agree that if I chose to try this it would mean that I have not accepted
my blindness and view myself as a lesser person than my sighted peers. If I
follow that thinking to its extreme, I would not want to exchange emails
with all of you, because I would have to use a technological advancement
that changes what I as a blind person can do. What technological advances
we choose to use or ignore does not make us a better or worse person. And
whether or not one accepted the chip or chose not to would be the same. It
does not necessarily by itself make you a better or worse person. Here in
America we can change our position in life if we choose to do so. I believe
that I as a blind American, have that right as well. And it makes me no
more or no less adjusted than the next person.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Heim" <john at johnheim.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implantedchip'allows blindpeopleto
detectobjects'
> Well, this chip is still in the experimental phase. Even if you tried to
> get it today, you probably couldn't. But Ray and Gloria aren't talking
> about how difficult it is to take part in an experimental program. If you
> were to participate as an experimental subject, you probably wouldn't get
> back enough sight to make it worth your effort. But you'd have the
> satisfaction of knowing you'd helped pave the way for others to regain
> their sight.
>
> Ray and Gloria seem to think (and correct me if I'm wrong here folks) that
> there must be something wrong with you if you want your sight back. Not
> only do I think that's wrong, I think its ridiculous.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Bullis" <mabullis at hotmail.com>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip'allows blindpeopleto
> detectobjects'
>
>
>> Well, I seldom agree with John about anything but....
>> I'd take the chip just because it would be an interesting and probably
>> exciting thing to try.
>> My life is quite full and I'm comfortable with my blindness but that
>> doesn't
>> mean I would turn down sight.
>> In any case, the sight provided in this article is pretty minimal and
>> probably not usable by people who have never seen.
>> In most cases the reason I would turn down opportunities to see are that
>> they would be a major disruption of my life, probably involving numerous
>> operations or major amounts of time off work. In other words, although I
>> would find sight an interesting and new option in my life, I wouldn't
>> take
>> risks of what I currently have to get it. And, I always envisioned any
>> such
>> treatment as having percentages of success. They'd say, "This process
>> has a
>> 20 percent chance of working and if it doesn't work you could be in major
>> pain for the rest of your life." You get the picture. I'd love to see
>> so
>> long as I didn't have to risk anything serious for it.
>> Now, offer me new eyes with no risk to the rest of my life and the
>> reasonable cewrtainty that I'd end up with good vision, I'd take that.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:09 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blindpeopleto
>> detectobjects'
>>
>> Well, John, obviously, you want it; and therefore, I conclude that you
>> are
>> not as well adjusted to your blindness as you really ought to be. Since
>> you
>> wanted a frank answer, there you go. Perhaps, however, you didn't expect
>> it
>> to be so direct. Any person who has not, for what ever reason, well
>> adjusted to their blindness will or might feel that something is lacking;
>> and, therefore, will welcome the chip to cause them to see. In my
>> situation, however, sight would really not fix anything. We tend to see
>> ourselves as others see us; and, this means, whether we like it or not,
>> that
>> if people generally think a blind person can't do anything, (and if that
>> blind person not well adjusted to blindness only sarounds himself with
>> people who think as he does), then, of course, he's going to believe the
>> same about himself. the very fact that anyone whom so ever could want
>> such
>> a chip is a reflection of a lack of proper knowledge about blindness;
>> and,
>> to be frank, an acceptance of the eronious belief that we blind are
>> inferior.
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:28 PM, John Heim wrote:
>>
>>> No, there's nothing wrong with being satisfied with being blind. But
>> that's not what you said. You said that if someone is well adjusted, you
>> don't see why they'd find this desirable. This implies that if you want
>> this device, you're not well adjusted. But rather than relying on
>> implications, I asked you straight out.
>>>
>>> So let me ask you again, are you saying that anyone who wants this
>>> device
>> is not well adjusted to being blind?
>>>
>>> Hint: I'm trying to give you an opportunity to not be a judgmental, self
>> righteous SOB. I suggest you take it.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blindpeopleto
>> detectobjects'
>>>
>>>
>>>> That is correct John. I don't need or want a chip to make me see.
>>>> Why?
>> Simple. I'm happy with myself as a blind person. Anything the matter
>> with
>> that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>
>>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>
>>>> Skype Name:
>>>> barefootedray
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:00 PM, John Heim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that if you are well
>> adjusted to being blind, you wouldn't want a chip to allow you to see?
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:14 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blind peopleto
>> detectobjects'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. My brain's just fine like it is.
>>>>>> Honestly, if one adjusts to blindness, why would one want such a
>>>>>> thing?
>> IF not well adjusted, then I suppose one might want such a thing. but,
>> what
>> with the programs we have in place, one would think such a chip
>> undesirable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 4, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have no desires for that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cell number: 509-475-4993
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Jennifer Aberdeen
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 5:30 AM
>>>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blind people to
>>>>>>> detectobjects'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank God!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is great news!
>>>>>>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> _______________________
>>>>>>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness
>> products!
>>>>>>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Get paid to read email!
>>>>>>> http://www.sendearnings.com/?r=ref1487633
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Chrane"
>> <kenneth.chrane at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> To: <CSDB-ALUMNI at googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>> Cc: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:21 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Fw: Implanted chip 'allows blind people to
>>>>>>> detectobjects'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you think about this Article?
>>>>>>>> Ken Chrane
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lela Behee
>>>>>>>> To: venetian-blind at googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:38 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Implanted chip 'allows blind people to detect objects'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Though this may not be helpful for those of us who have prosthetic
>> eyes
>>>>>>>> and so have no retina, what a very exciting leap forward this is in
>>>>>>>> technology!
>>>>>>>> Praise our Lord!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2 November 2010 Last updated at 20:49 ET
>>>>>>>> Implanted chip 'allows blind people to detect objects'
>>>>>>>> By Neil Bowdler Science reporter, BBC News
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Miikka Terho is given the task of reading letters which together
>> misspell
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> own name
>>>>>>>> A man with an inherited form of blindness has been able to identify
>>>>>>>> letters and
>>>>>>>> a clock face using a pioneering implant, researchers say.
>>>>>>>> Miikka Terho, 46, from Finland, was fitted with an experimental
>>>>>>>> chip
>>>>>>>> behind his
>>>>>>>> retina in Germany. Success was also reported in other patients.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The chip allows a patient to detect objects with their eyes, unlike
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> rival
>>>>>>>> approach that uses an external camera.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Details of the work are in the journal Proceedings of the Royal
>> Society B.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Professor Eberhart Zrenner, of Germany's University of Tuebingen,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> colleagues
>>>>>>>> at private company Retina Implant AG initially tested their
>> sub-retinal
>>>>>>>> chip on
>>>>>>>> 11 people.
>>>>>>>> Some noticed no improvement as their condition was too advanced to
>> benefit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> the implant, but a majority were able to pick out bright objects,
>> Prof
>>>>>>>> Zrenner
>>>>>>>> told the BBC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, it was only when the chip was placed further behind the
>> retina,
>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> central macular area in three people, that they achieved the best
>> results.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Two of these had lost their vision because of the inherited
>>>>>>>> condition
>>>>>>>> retinitis
>>>>>>>> pigmentosa, or RP, the other because of a related inherited
>>>>>>>> condition
>>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>>> choroideraemia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RP leads to the progressive degeneration of cells in the eye's
>> retina,
>>>>>>>> resulting
>>>>>>>> in night blindness, tunnel vision and then usually permanent
>> blindness.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> symptoms can begin from early childhood.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The best results were achieved with Mr Terho, who was able to
>> recognise
>>>>>>>> cutlery
>>>>>>>> and a mug on a table, a clock face and discern seven different
>>>>>>>> shades
>> of
>>>>>>>> grey.
>>>>>>>> He was also able to move around a room independently and approach
>> people.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In further tests he read large letters set out before him,
>>>>>>>> including
>> his
>>>>>>>> name,
>>>>>>>> which had been deliberately misspelled. He soon noticed it had been
>> spelt
>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> same way as the Finnish racing driver Mika Hakkinnen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Three or four days after the implantation, when everything was
>> healed, I
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> like wow, there's activity," he told the BBC from his home in
>> Finland.
>>>>>>>> "Right after that, if my eye hit the light, then I was able to see
>>>>>>>> flashes, some
>>>>>>>> activity which I hadn't had.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Then day after day when we started working with it, practising,
>>>>>>>> then
>> I
>>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>> seeing better and better all the time."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Soon Mr Terho was able to read letters by training his mind to
>>>>>>>> bring
>> the
>>>>>>>> component lines that comprised the letters together.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The prototype implant has now been removed, but he has been
>>>>>>>> promised
>> an
>>>>>>>> upgraded
>>>>>>>> version soon. He says it can make a difference to his life.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "What I realised in those days was that it was such a great feeling
>> to
>>>>>>>> focus on
>>>>>>>> something," he says.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Even having a limited ability to see with the chip, it will be
>>>>>>>> good
>> for
>>>>>>>> orientation, either walking somewhere or being able to see that
>> something
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> before you even if you don't see all the tiny details of the
>>>>>>>> object."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Electrical impulses
>>>>>>>> The chip works by converting light that enters the eye into
>> electrical
>>>>>>>> impulses
>>>>>>>> which are fed into the optic nerve behind the eye.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is externally powered and in the initial study was connected to
>>>>>>>> a
>> cable
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> protruded from the skin behind the ear to connect with a battery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The team are now testing an upgrade in which the device is all
>> contained
>>>>>>>> beneath
>>>>>>>> the skin, with power delivered though the skin via an external
>>>>>>>> device
>> that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> clips
>>>>>>>> behind the ear.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is by no means the only approach being taken by scientists to
>> try to
>>>>>>>> restore some visual ability to people with retinal dysfunction -
>> what's
>>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>>> retinal dystrophy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A rival chip by US-based Second Sight that sits on top of the
>>>>>>>> retina
>> has
>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>> been implanted in patients, but that technique requires the patient
>> to be
>>>>>>>> fitted
>>>>>>>> with a camera fixed to a pair of glasses.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Charities gave the news of the latest work a cautious welcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David Head, of the British Retinitis Pigmentosa Society, said:
>>>>>>>> "It's
>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>> fascinating work, but it doesn't restore vision. It rather gives
>> people
>>>>>>>> signals
>>>>>>>> which help them to interpret."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peoria Blind Center
>>>>>>>> www.peoriablindcenter.org
>>>>>>>> Here is the name of the group on facebook: PeoriArea Blind People's
>>>>>>>> Center. Your friends on facebook are going to have to get on
>>>>>>>> their facebook account and search for the group's name to join, or
>>>>>>>> to
>> see
>>>>>>>> what we are about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>>>>>>>> "venetian blind" group.
>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>>>>>> venetian-blind at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>>>> venetian-blind+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/venetian-blind?hl=en.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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