[nfb-talk] John Hime- A different option!

Mon Apr 25 15:41:24 UTC 2011

I guess it depends on what you call mental growth!  Hearing the same thing 
time after time, year after year, with variationws doesn't strike me as 
mental growth!  Therefore, I feel my approach is a good one and hope others 
follow in my footstepts here.  True mental growth occurs when there is true 
dialogue and all are listening!  Putting 15 posts on a topic isn't my idea 
of a good dialogue!  That's trying to outshout someone!  I of course am not 
telling you what to do but maybe I can reach others who are looking for a 
solution to all of this!  I say the delete key works just fine!

Jim

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "S Baker" <srbaker12 at hotmail.com>
To: "ANFBchat" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:21 PM
Subject: [nfb-talk] John Hime- A different option!

>
> Why all the vitriol. Some sound like the Salem Witch Trials, burn him at 
> the stake. An alternative approach would be to read all posts, consider 
> what it has to say, than accept or reject it based upon its merit. To 
> reject thoughts or different ideas out of hand, is short sighted and 
> stifles mental growth.
> Steve
>
>
> SRBaker
>
>
>
>
>> From: jajkaldrich at gmail.com
>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 16:27:46 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: John Hime
>>
>> Hi Joseph and all!
>>
>> Yes! You yourself and anyone else on this list can do something about 
>> this!
>> The best friend you have is on your keyboard! It is called the delete 
>> key.
>> Whenever you encounter a John Hime message, delete it, don't give it any
>> attention! Don't waste your time! Go onto those persons who truly value
>> what you have to say and will engage in an intelligent dialogue! If
>> everyone does this, he might get tired of talking to himself or in 
>> reality
>> David Andrews who monitors the list as he must and he then will deal with
>> these empty diatribes of his! You're calling him a troll suddenly brought
>> about fifteen or so posts from him! It seems whenever I see his posts,
>> there ar at least fifteen of them not one, two or three! People who join
>> the ACB-l list are limited to five or six posts per day so he comes over
>> here to send his 15 or more posts! I don't know what his mission is over
>> here! Maybe he thinks he is some kind of proffit who knows more than
>> anybody else about blindness. Or, he gets his jollies and gets amunition 
>> to
>> forward to whichever list he forwards stuff too to show how badly behaved 
>> we
>> are! Don't fall for this! Most people who think alike gather together for
>> mutual support and learning! He doesn't wish to learn! He doesn't take
>> time to read our literature wich is abundantly available! Therefore, 
>> let's
>> exercise that delete key! It works for anyone else too that you don't
>> particularly care for! I for one have been ignored by the ACB-L list so 
>> why
>> not do the same here! Until he or anyone else for that matter can't learn
>> to disagree agreeably, they should be ignored! The man isn't normal! He
>> merely wishes to cause discord, not harmony! He isn't worth your time!
>>
>> If you don't like my post, delete it! Get it? Now let's exercise that
>> delete key!
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 6:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>> ChairmanGordon Gund
>>
>>
>> >I just get so tired of the same damned unrelenting straw men brought up
>> >time and again, anywhere he can wedge these things in, whether they make
>> >sense or not. He's not been back two weeks and already we're all
>> >illogical, unethical, and he's back to the straw man about how we all 
>> >want
>> >blind people to beg for help from sighted people.
>> >
>> > If I have learned one thing from politics, it's that certain parties
>> > always want to re-frame the argument so that either you agree with 
>> > them,
>> > or you are against something that nobody ever would be. Either I am
>> > right, or you support cruelty to kittens! What do kittens have to do 
>> > with
>> > anything?
>> >
>> > So if you listen to John, if you oppose a particular modification to 
>> > the
>> > US currency, you want blind people to be helpless and dependent, 
>> > despite
>> > the fact that very few are helpless or dependent in this matter today,
>> > unless it be by choice. Money identifiers are now $100, and my cell 
>> > phone
>> > can do it for the huge investment of TWO BUCKS. John and I basically
>> > agree that electronic identifiers are not a suitable solution to the
>> > problem, and yet I cannot support his baseless attacks (and incessant)
>> > incendiary claims against the NFB on even this issue. Despite the NFB's
>> > involvement in making the currency accessible, John's blanket statement 
>> > is
>> > that we oppose doing this on every level, and in THREE YEARS (or 
>> > longer, I
>> > think) he has yet to accept a single person's claim to the contrary.
>> >
>> > If you oppose chirping signals, you want blind people to die crossing
>> > streets. An outright lie. The NFB opposed these things because the data
>> > showed that they drowned out cars resulting in more blind people at 
>> > risk,
>> > not less. Moreover, as of eight or nine years ago, the NFB has been
>> > actively developing a safe replacement for these squawking monsters, 
>> > and
>> > the documented position of the organization is that we support their
>> > installation when they will benefit people. John's blanket assertion is
>> > that we oppose them universally. Our own resolutions to the contrary 
>> > are
>> > not evidence, and nobody can prove otherwise to his satisfaction.
>> >
>> > If you oppose blanket mandates for descriptive video without any
>> > consideration of what kind of descriptive video would be useful or in 
>> > what
>> > context, then you are a monster who wants blind people to be deprived,
>> > uninformed, and miserable. The fact that descriptive video doesn't
>> > actually exist as any kind of standard like closed captioning does and
>> > that it's just shoehorned haphazardly into SAP channels, that nobody 
>> > has
>> > actually determined what to describe or how, or that any effort to 
>> > mandate
>> > this now can only serve to prevent a universal and standardized 
>> > solution
>> > from emerging is irrelevant. Again we have the blanket assertion that 
>> > the
>> > NFB opposes what is good and right, is evil for doing so, and not one
>> > single argument to the contrary is ever afforded even a first thought, 
>> > let
>> > alone a second.
>> >
>> > I could go on, at length, but the fact remains that nobody has ever 
>> > swayed
>> > John Heim on a single issue, ever, in the history of his presence on 
>> > this
>> > list. We are all just illogical, unethical, and he is brutalized and
>> > attacked from all sides, asking Dave Andrews to sanction anyone who
>> > bruises his poor, fragile ego. He can dish it out, in spades, in the 
>> > most
>> > incendiary language possible, but he can't take his own medicine.
>> >
>> > And more importantly, he won't shut the hell up about any of it. He 
>> > just
>> > continues to trash the NFB, and the good people of this list. We have 
>> > not
>> > forgotten this, and it should be clear that John is immovable on pretty
>> > much anything, and that includes a fundamental belief that the NFB is
>> > harmful to the blind. So then, what is he doing here? And why is he
>> > permitted to remain, spewing this crap day after day?
>> >
>> > Joseph
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 08:16:28PM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>> >>Too bad that troll doesn't fall off the face of the earth!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Gloria Whipple
>> >>Corresponding Secretary
>> >>Inland Empire chapter
>> >>nfb of WA
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>> >>On
>> >>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>> >>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 17:10
>> >>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> >>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>> >>ChairmanGordon Gund
>> >>
>> >>The troll returns to one of his favorite ACB-inspired arguments about
>> >>how evil the NFB is. I say again, go away.
>> >>
>> >>Joseph
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 04:24:42PM -0500, John Heim wrote:
>> >>>Yet, the NFB would have us ask for help to identify our money.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:21 PM, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Hi Joseph,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Well done! I like what you had to say.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>My prayers go out to you and I hope you get better and I hope you
>> >>>>are free
>> >>>>from cancer soon.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>All my best,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Gloria Whipple
>> >>>>Corresponding Secretary
>> >>>>Inland Empire chapter
>> >>>>nfb of WA
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>-----Original Message-----
>> >>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-
>> >>>>bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >>>>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>> >>>>Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 19:01
>> >>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> >>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] FW: {Disarmed} FW: A personal report from
>> >>>>ChairmanGordon Gund
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Gloria,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I think what it boils down to is that language is a powerful thing.
>> >>>>The words a person uses are less important than the intent behind
>> >>>>them, but from a choice of certain words over others we can infer an
>> >>>>intent. I have been battling cancer. This implies something about
>> >>>>me and my relationship to cancer. I have been living with it, and I
>> >>>>don't want to be. In fact, I am fighting to make it gone, because
>> >>>>cancer is a horrible thing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Am I fighting blindness? Do I suffer from blindness? Am I forced to
>> >>>>use alternative techniques? Well yes, I do suffer as a result of
>> >>>>blindness. Not because of blindness itself per se, but because of
>> >>>>the reaction of others to it who are not blind (and a few who are,
>> >>>>sadly).
>> >>>>
>> >>>>The refusal to be pigeon-holed into this "sad existence" of
>> >>>>"suffering because of blindness" is precisely the kind of supposed
>> >>>>"unethical" behavior the NFB engages in by spreading our philosophy.
>> >>>>It is akin to those during the 60s arguing against the notion that
>> >>>>they were afflicted somehow with being black. Blindness is a bad
>> >>>>thing only if you make it be so, and we refuse to make it so for
>> >>>>ourselves. Moreover, we refuse to allow others to force us into that
>> >>>>role.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Those who would disparage our efforts to do so are not our friends,
>> >>>>just as those who would have you look down upon a man of color
>> >>>>because his skin was darker than, say, mine is. Is he somehow worse
>> >>>>of because of that? Is he lessened as a man or as a person? Does he
>> >>>>deserve something less, or for that matter anything more, than any
>> >>>>other person simply because of the color of his skin? Most today
>> >>>>would say out of hand that he should have the same opportunities
>> >>>>anyone would have. No more, but certainly no less!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>The blind deserve the same equality that our more sunburn-resistant
>> >>>>brothers demanded more than forty years ago. In just one generation
>> >>>>we have gone from a person of color being denied the use of a
>> >>>>drinking fountain to electing him to the United States presidency.
>> >>>>If there remains racial inequality, it cannot be because of the color
>> >>>>of a person's skin anymore. Some individuals may yet harbor such
>> >>>>attitudes (and I recently observed some of those people in a public
>> >>>>display, sadly), but society rejects such people as undesirable when
>> >>>>they are exposed. (And believe me, we are exposing them all over
>> >>>>YouTube, since the local media won't even report it.)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>But what about the blind? The same society who refuses to allow a
>> >>>>black man to be treated as a second class citizen openly condones it
>> >>>>when a blind man is treated likewise. Disability is one of only two
>> >>>>acceptable areas of discrimination that remain in this country. (The
>> >>>>other is so far removed from topical for this list that I won't
>> >>>>discuss it here, much to Dave's relief.)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>We cannot continue to meekly request that we be treated as first
>> >>>>class citizens. It didn't work in the 1940s, and it hasn't worked
>> >>>>yet. Only by refusing to be anything less will we finally achieve
>> >>>>that. Unfortunately, that means getting a bit uppity over language
>> >>>>that paints us into a corner, as it were. I'm not here to be pitied
>> >>>>or someone's inspiration. I'm here because I've got a job to do, and
>> >>>>within the National Federation of the Blind, that job is to achieve
>> >>>>for myself and for all of us the basic rights of first class
>> >>>>citizenship afforded to anyone else in this country today, regardless
>> >>>>of their skin color, sexual orientation, and a whole host of other
>> >>>>things.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I don't expect any more, but I also won't accept any less.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Joseph
>> >>>>
>> >>>>On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 09:33:15AM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>> >>>>>James,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Thanks for explaining what I wanted to say about this subject.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>I am glad someone is on my side!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Gloria Whipple
>> >>>>>Corresponding Secretary
>> >>>>>Inland Empire chapter
>> >>>>>nfb of WA
>> >>>>
>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>> >>>>nfb-talk mailing list
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>> >>>>nfb-talk:
>> >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/ladygloria%40web
>> >>ba
>> >>>>nd.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>_______________________________________________
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>> >>net
>> >>>
>> >>>
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