[nfb-talk] Discrimination

Tue Aug 2 14:38:41 UTC 2011

William,

Part of the problem with Joseph's situation is that at least I don't really have a clear picture of what happened.  Part of his treatment, the apparent use of 
power, is something that probably all members of the flying public has experienced.  If Joseph wanted to go through using his cane, if the cane was taken 
away from him, if he was then forced to actually walk through the metal detector using sighted guide, if the employee walking through with him set off the 
metal detector, if Joe then did not set off the metal detector, if Joe was then body searched anyway even though he did not set off the detector, then we 
have some degree of treatment that goes beyond what the public gets.  However, I don't know if my account is correct.  Usually when one is helped 
through the metal detector, an employee extends a hand from the far side.  While I am not one to assume that airlines and airports are always right, having 
been arrested myself for not moving from an exit row back in 1985, it just seems to me that some of the circumstances and details are not clear.  I am not 
willing to just say that what Joseph experienced is what we should expect, but it also doesn't seem to me that the picture we have is completely clear, 
either.  If we are going to continue discussing this in the theoretical realm, we need to be clear about what it is that we feel is treatment that we are 
obligated to accept and what we are not.  It is a given now that going up against security at airports is an uphill battle, and each of us has to think 
carefully how we are going to handle a given situation.  We have to be aware of the affect our actions may have on a long line of passengers behind us 
as well, and make choices accordingly.  Many of these security people are well trained in specific processes, but they are not people who have a 
background in public or consumer relations.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 07:07:42 -0400, Wm. Ritchhart wrote:

>About all I could add to this discussion is that Joseph was not really
>treated any differently than any sighted person would have been who dared to
>question the TSA agents.  That is why for me this is not a blindness issue.
>I hear from sighted friends with regular frequency stories similar to
>Josephs.  The only difference is the comment or action of the traveler that
>causes the TSA employee to decide to show the traveler who is boss.

>This is one of the many reasons I attempt to avoid flying whenever possible.
>Add to it the cramped seats and higher prices, it becomes more trouble than
>it's worth in most cases.  

>When you have seriously limited time or cannot find a driver or must travel
>alone, then it is probably a necessary evil.  But if you have someone who
>can drive and don't mind taking longer to reach your destination, than
>driving is a much better way.  

>One example... to visit my sister in southeast Georgia costs about $250.00
>per person in air fare and four hours in air line travel time.  By car we
>can transport four people comfortably for $500.00 and travel time is about
>nine hours.  

>One additional advantage to taking the car is that you can pack coolers of
>your favorite soft drinks and foods and are not robbed by a greedy
>corporation for a meal.

>It's not a perfect solution and not workable if you don't have drivers.  But
>for some it could be a workable alternative.
> 

>Thanks, William

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 10:21 PM
>To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Discrimination

>Ashley:

>I think we must be clear in our legal terminology. If full-body-scans are a
>violation of our rights, they are a violation of *privacy* rights, not civil
>rights as in Title VI of the civil rights Act of 1964. Like Larry, I don't
>really care whether someone likes to perv by looking at my innards or
>birthday suit -- if they are *that* deprived, they need an education.
>(smirk)

>That aside, I think that while your comment about TSA personnel ideally
>neding training is true, we must bear in mind someone else's comment from
>some time back in the discussion that in speaking with a supervisor at
>United Airlines (it was called that back then), the supervisor said the
>toughest problem was to get all 10,000 cabin attendants to obey the rules.

>Mike

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 3:12 PM
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Discrimination

>Larry,
>We all go through hastles and indignity at airports. I think the full body
>scanners are a civil rights violation. We should never be virtually stripped
>searched without a reason behind it.
>As for your comment about the bus or train, buses will soon have airport
>style security and maybe rail someday too. Some places you cannot get to on
>land via rail as well.

>I think TSA need training in manners and their own regulations; this might
>minimize some distress among passengers.
>Ashley

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Larry D. Keeler
>Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 7:39 AM
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: [nfb-talk] Discrimination

>Dignity certainly is an issue!  I think that dignity is a relative term
>however.  Most americans whether blind or not, suffer some indignity at
>airports.  If you don't want to suffer indignities at the airport, then the
>train or bus should suffice.  I aggree with you Brian though about hired
>assistance.  Many of them are untraind and understand very little english.
>Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
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