[nfb-talk] Convention

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Thu Aug 4 22:15:16 UTC 2011 

Like much else in life, it's a balancing act.

Mike Freeman
sent from my iPhone


On Aug 4, 2011, at 14:36, "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:

> Loren,
> 
> I still find myself getting a little uneasy with how we carry out accepting people where they are even though I agree that we need to do that.  I think 
> independence is not just accepting the status quo but it is something we have to strive for.  It doesn't mean that we have to constantly beat up on ourselves 
> because we are not as independent as someone else in terms of not requiring help, for example, but it also sometimes means looking at what we do and 
> how we might do it more independently.  It can be easy for any of us to decide that a given problem isn't our fault, it is everybody else's fault for not 
> accepting us as we are.  Sometimes people are quick to judge, but sometimes we sell ourselves short.  
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Steve Jacobson
> 
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:18:10 -0500, Loren Wakefield wrote:
> 
>> Yes, there may be another disability involved.  And it also may be that the 
>> person is older.  Whatever the reason, it happens.
> 
>> Anyway, we need to meet people where they are.  And let them decide how to 
>> handle things.  We can show them ways to handle various situations.  And 
>> maybe a good discussion would be exactly what is independence anyway?
> 
> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 10:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention
> 
> 
>>> We need to be understanding that blind people and our members in 
>>> particularly come to conventions with many different backgrounds and 
>>> levels of skills so
>>> I agree with your point.  Our role should be to help people achieve 
>>> independence, not to require that independence be already achieved before 
>>> attending a
>>> convention.  I do question your statement that sighted people don't cut 
>>> their own meat, though.  I've ever seen a sighted person not cut their own 
>>> meat
>>> unless there was another disability involved.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:00:03 -0500, Loren Wakefield wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm not surprised at all but finding those who do not cut their own meat 
>>>> at
>>>> nfb conventions.  Many sighted do not cut their own these days. And 
>>>> cutting
>>>> your own meat does nothing to prove you are independent.  We all have
>>>> differing abilities.  And as long as we are calling the shots, then who is
>>>> to say who is independent and who is not?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 9:50 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> Great points from personal experience! But given the philosophy of
>>>>> independence, I'm kind of surprised you've seen individuals who need 
>>>>> help
>>>>> cutting meat.  I would think those people would be embarrassed to be at 
>>>>> a
>>>>> NFB convention with many independent blind people. I've certainly seen
>>>>> many different types of people with a wide range of interests at
>>>>> conventions. I have been to mainly state ones but one part of a national
>>>>> one.  Yes there is certainly diversity.
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:41 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention
>>>>> 
>>>>> John:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have been to quite a number of NFb conventions, and I will say that
>>>>> I have observed a wide range of persons and abilities.  I have seen
>>>>> some great travelers, and I have seen people who bring a sighted
>>>>> parent or friend because they don't travel alone.  I have seen people
>>>>> who went through buffet lines with little or no assistance, and I
>>>>> have had dinner with people who requested that the waiter or waitress
>>>>> cut their meat.  I suspect that the range of people and abilities is
>>>>> much greater than you think.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>> At 04:13 PM 8/2/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>> Well, I presume you're asking how I know that those who attend the
>>>>>> conventions are the best of the best. And I'll admit its just 
>>>>>> speculation.
>>>>>> But it just stands to reason. Of course, it wouldn't be a perfect
>>>>>> correllation either.  But I'm sure the majority of people at the NFB
>>>>>> conventions are those who have it together (for lack of a better term).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I once got into a debate with someone from the ACB who questioned the 
>>>>>> 70%
>>>>>> unemployment figure for blind people. He had done  a survey of ACB 
>>>>>> members
>>>>>> and found that the unemployment rate was more like 30 - 40%. But I 
>>>>>> pointed
>>>>>> out that ACB members probably aren't average blind people. 30 - 40% of 
>>>>>> ACB
>>>>>> members might be unemployed but that doesn't mean that 30 - 40% of all
>>>>>> blind people are unemployed.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> NFB members probably aren't average either, especially those who attend
>>>>>> conventions. So you probably couldn't get an accurate glimpse into the
>>>>>> lives of the average blind person even if you expanded the voting to 
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> not attending the convention. But it would help, IMO.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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