[nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

ckrugman at sbcglobal.net ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Fri Aug 26 06:43:49 UTC 2011 

Actually, when I go through the detector I have handed off the cane or put 
it on to the conveyor and walked through it. Perhaps I don't consider this a 
problem as I have enough travel vision mostly light and object perception 
where this is a not an issue. Unless it is obvious that a person wanting to 
offer to guide me is obviously putting me in danger I personally don't have 
a need to protest.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando


> Chuck,
> But I bet you are permitted to go through the detector alone.
> Joseph was guided through and he wanted to walk through alone or alone 
> with his cane.
> He said TSA rules allow you to pass through with your cane and if this is 
> the case, he should have been allowed the cane rather than being forced to 
> take sighted guide.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 3:04 AM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>
> I think that dignity is a relative term here. I would have to agree with 
> the
> position that there are much more important battles to go through every 
> day.
> I frequently have to go through security checkpoints not only in airports
> but each time I go in to a courthouse and not only do I give up my cane 
> but
> warn the TSA official or deputy that it will set it off. While we may want
> to rant and rave about indignities we do need to fit in to the sithted 
> world
> if we want the dignity that you are so concerned about.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 10:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>
>
>> So then I guess the TSA agent was right, if you’re a fair representative. 
>> No other blind person insisted upon his rights clearly stated in TSA 
>> regulations.
>>
>> An attack on the dignity of the blind is an attack on every single one of 
>> us.  If that’s not your fight, then I am sorry.  If it is not the 
>> National Federation of the Blind’s fight, then we have become as cowardly 
>> as the ACB and the HELP committee can safely ignore our little request 
>> that blind people be paid a fair wage for fair work, because we lack the 
>> backbone to defend what little we have won, let alone fight for more 
>> dignity.
>>
>> It isn’t about how far I could walk with or without a cane.  It is about 
>> it being respectable to be blind.  It is about defending a law that 
>> Federationists fought and went to jail trying to win for all of us, 
>> whether you personally give a damn or not.  This was an attack on the 
>> dignity of the blind, outright, and it was an attack on every single one 
>> of us.
>>
>> I’ve pointed out that you don’t feel any need or desire to defend the 
>> rights the Federation fought so hard to attain for you.  If you feel 
>> insulted by that, maybe you need to ask yourself what your life would be 
>> right now if the Federation hadn’t been there to fight for the rights you 
>> have today, including those you casually disregard as not personally 
>> significant.
>>
>> That would be equivalent to me saying that discrimination against guide 
>> dogs isn’t my fight because I use a cane.  It IS my fight, because I am a 
>> Federationist and an attack on the rights of any of us as blind citizens 
>> is an attack on every single one of us.  I don’t know about anybody else, 
>> especially after reading some of the cowardly responses on this list, but 
>> that is what I go to the matt for, every single time, whether it happens 
>> to me or not.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:09:16AM -0400, Brian Miller wrote:
>>>Hi Joe,
>>>
>>>You're assuming I feel intimidated , and this isn't the case at all.
>>>However, I will say that as someone who travels for work, travels for 
>>>fun,
>>>and travels often, I'm inclined to smile and nod and just let the TSA 
>>>guys
>>>have their way rather than risk my livelihood and my lifestyle over
>>>something that is very low on my list of issues.  Using my cane to go
>>>through the machine is likely to set it off, as it has metal on the tip, 
>>>the
>>>chain, and sometimes things attached to the chain.  To me, putting my 
>>>cane
>>>on the belt and walking maybe five to ten steps at most and getting my 
>>>cane
>>>on the other side is not taxing my skills, my patience, or my dignity.
>>>There are plenty of other things that do, however, but this isn't one of
>>>them.
>>>
>>>I've said that it sure sounds like you got rotten treatment at the hands 
>>>of
>>>the TSA guys, and I think you should pursue a complaint, but don't put 
>>>words
>>>in my mouth, impune my integrity, or frankly insult me because this just
>>>isn't my fight.  Do I like the brutalizing we all get at the security 
>>>check
>>>points?  Of course not, but this is an issue way bigger than all of us 
>>>here.
>>>
>>>
>>>Airports are full of idiots who know nothing about blindness -- have you 
>>>had
>>>a sky cap assist you lately?  Talk about insulting!  A gate agent 
>>>recently
>>>accused my wife of faking being blind because she was such a competent
>>>traveler.  Now that's something I'm willing to go to the matt over...
>>>
>>>Best of luck,
>>>
>>>Brian M
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>>Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:29 PM
>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>>
>>>So what you're saying, Brian, is that you're willing to be intimidated 
>>>into
>>>giving up your rights, because the big boogeyman TSA agents can do too 
>>>much
>>>to you if you don't do exactly what they say, whether it's illegal or 
>>>flies
>>>in the face of every battle we have fought long and hard for as an
>>>organization?
>>>
>>>Just want to be sure I understand here.  Because the TSA said that of 
>>>nearly
>>>3,000 blind people going through the airport, I'm the only one who 
>>>insisted
>>>that I had a right NOT to be led around like a child, denied the use of 
>>>my
>>>cane for travel.
>>>
>>>Joseph
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 09:07:58PM -0400, Brian Miller wrote:
>>>>Hi Peter,
>>>>
>>>>I don't think anyone feels that Joe was treated well, or with the
>>>>respect he deserves, but security checks are a serious hassle and a
>>>>drag for everyone, and indignities abound.  I think solidarity across
>>>>the board, and not just for blind people, is in order.
>>>>
>>>>I merely say that for me using my cane to walk a few feet through the
>>>>metal detector is not worth fighting over -- the last thing I need is
>>>>to end up on a "no fly" list.  The point is, you are exactly right that
>>>>the blind have been fighting, and getting arrested, and going to jail,
>>>>for years over our right to have our mobility devices, and we've won
>>>>some, and lost many others.  I think we need to figure out where to
>>>>focus our energies to maximize independence while recognizing that we
>>>>face a very difficult environment in which to make our arguments when it
>>>comes to security.
>>>>
>>>>Heck, we still don't, and maybe never will, have the right to sit in
>>>>the emergency row -- now that makes me feel more like a child than does
>>>>a quick guide through the magnetometer .
>>>>
>>>>Not long ago Dr. Fred Schoeder was denied the right to fly to a meeting
>>>>because he was traveling alone... Granted, this was not in the United
>>>>States, but that kind of right of freedom of movement, is something I'm
>>>>willing to lie down on the tarmac for and go to jail.... Maybe not a
>>>>jail in Thailand, though *smile*
>>>>
>>>>In any case, I don't think Alicia, or any of us, are trying to miminize
>>>>the fight we all face.
>>>>
>>>>Brian M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>>>Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:30 AM
>>>>To: Alicia Richards; NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>>>
>>>>Hello Alicia and everyone,
>>>>
>>>>The next time you pass through a TSA Check point we'll cut both of your
>>>>feet off and demand that you walk through like anyone else. Blind
>>>>people have fought long and hard to be allowed to keep their canes and
>>>>dogs with them at all times while passing through TSA check points and 
>>>>on
>>>planes themselves.
>>>>Blind people were arrested and went to jail to insure these rights are
>>>>protected and we don't need our own people telling us that it's not a
>>>>big deal.
>>>>
>>>>Peter Donahue who along with Mary took their last flight ever on a
>>>>commercial airliner and can look forward to avoiding TSA screeners in
>>>>the future!
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Alicia Richards" <alicianfb at gmail.com>
>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I agree with Mike and others here.  Yes, the TSA has been given too
>>>>much power.  It's shameful that they can perform such invasive
>>>>patdowns, violating one's personal space and dignity.  but as Ryan
>>>>said, that's not a blindness issue: they can do that to anyone.  And,
>>>>I've never understood people's issue with giving up their cane for 30
>>>>seconds, taking someone's hand to walk five steps through the security
>>>>check, and then have their cane handed right back to them.  I question
>>>>someone's mobility training if they are unable to walk five steps
>>>>without their cane, and also can't help but wonder if they're
>>>>exhibiting what I believe was once called, "rebellious independence,"
>>>>by refusing to take the hand or arm of a TSA official for that very
>>>>brief time.  But to each their own.  Joseph, I'll be curious if you get 
>>>>a
>>>reply from Scott LaBarre about this?
>>>>
>>>>Alicia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>signature database 6282 (20110710) __________
>>>>
>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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