[nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Tue Jul 12 15:32:55 UTC 2011


The courts have ruled that, in effect, if one doesn't want the screenings (however invasive), one shouldn't fly. I'm not saying this is correct; I merely say that those who protest won't win in the courts and that it will take legislation to change things — not bloody likely in the current political climate.

Mike

On Jul 12, 2011, at 1:01, "Gloria Whipple" <ladygloria at webband.com> wrote:

> I also feel sorry for the 95-year old woman.
> 
> How humiliating!
> 
> 
> Gloria Whipple
> Corresponding Secretary
> Inland Empire chapter
> nfb of WA
> 
> Cell: 509-475-4993
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 23:46
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
> 
> Thanks Gloria, I’m glad to not be completely alone on this one.  The 
> thing is that it’s not even about me, personally.  I’ve heard of much 
> more invasive pat downs by TSA, and indeed I’ve had more thorough 
> security screenings myself by trained officers (albeit without the 
> need to remove any clothing), and despite everything the TSA agent 
> missed something he should have noticed and at least asked me to 
> explain—I only realized I was carrying it when I sat down on the 
> plane.
> 
> It’s all 100% about the fact that the extra screening was punitive in 
> nature, that I was told I would be exposed to it expressly for trying 
> to assert my right as a blind traveler, and that the agents tried to 
> cover it up.  This makes it a rights issue, and more importantly a 
> blindness rights issue since what got the extra attention was the 
> assertion to my TSA-acknowledged rights as a blind person.  I 
> wouldn’t much have cared had I simply been selected for additional 
> screening either randomly or based on normal documented TSA 
> procedures.
> 
> As for what the TSA agent missed or how I know that better trained 
> officers wouldn’t have, the truly curious can ask off-list, but it’s 
> not really as exciting as you might expect.
> 
> Joseph
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:53:04PM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>> Sorry about my last reply. I don't know why it didn't go through.
>> 
>> Amen on that one!
>> 
>> I am not going to be a door mat for anyone!
>> 
>> 
>> Gloria Whipple
>> Corresponding Secretary
>> Inland Empire chapter
>> nfb of WA
>> 
>> Cell: 509-475-4993
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 22:26
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>> 
>> So then I guess the TSA agent was right, if you’re a fair
>> representative.  No other blind person insisted upon his rights
>> clearly stated in TSA regulations.
>> 
>> An attack on the dignity of the blind is an attack on every single
>> one of us.  If that’s not your fight, then I am sorry.  If it is not
>> the National Federation of the Blind’s fight, then we have become as
>> cowardly as the ACB and the HELP committee can safely ignore our
>> little request that blind people be paid a fair wage for fair work,
>> because we lack the backbone to defend what little we have won, let
>> alone fight for more dignity.
>> 
>> It isn’t about how far I could walk with or without a cane.  It is
>> about it being respectable to be blind.  It is about defending a law
>> that Federationists fought and went to jail trying to win for all of
>> us, whether you personally give a damn or not.  This was an attack on
>> the dignity of the blind, outright, and it was an attack on every
>> single one of us.
>> 
>> I’ve pointed out that you don’t feel any need or desire to defend the
>> rights the Federation fought so hard to attain for you.  If you feel
>> insulted by that, maybe you need to ask yourself what your life would
>> be right now if the Federation hadn’t been there to fight for the
>> rights you have today, including those you casually disregard as not
>> personally significant.
>> 
>> That would be equivalent to me saying that discrimination against
>> guide dogs isn’t my fight because I use a cane.  It IS my fight,
>> because I am a Federationist and an attack on the rights of any of us
>> as blind citizens is an attack on every single one of us.  I don’t
>> know about anybody else, especially after reading some of the
>> cowardly responses on this list, but that is what I go to the matt
>> for, every single time, whether it happens to me or not.
>> 
>> Joseph
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:09:16AM -0400, Brian Miller wrote:
>>> Hi Joe,
>>> 
>>> You're assuming I feel intimidated , and this isn't the case at all.
>>> However, I will say that as someone who travels for work, travels for fun,
>>> and travels often, I'm inclined to smile and nod and just let the TSA guys
>>> have their way rather than risk my livelihood and my lifestyle over
>>> something that is very low on my list of issues.  Using my cane to go
>>> through the machine is likely to set it off, as it has metal on the tip, the
>>> chain, and sometimes things attached to the chain.  To me, putting my cane
>>> on the belt and walking maybe five to ten steps at most and getting my cane
>>> on the other side is not taxing my skills, my patience, or my dignity.
>>> There are plenty of other things that do, however, but this isn't one of
>>> them.
>>> 
>>> I've said that it sure sounds like you got rotten treatment at the hands of
>>> the TSA guys, and I think you should pursue a complaint, but don't put words
>>> in my mouth, impune my integrity, or frankly insult me because this just
>>> isn't my fight.  Do I like the brutalizing we all get at the security check
>>> points?  Of course not, but this is an issue way bigger than all of us here.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Airports are full of idiots who know nothing about blindness -- have you had
>>> a sky cap assist you lately?  Talk about insulting!  A gate agent recently
>>> accused my wife of faking being blind because she was such a competent
>>> traveler.  Now that's something I'm willing to go to the matt over...
>>> 
>>> Best of luck,
>>> 
>>> Brian M
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:29 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>> 
>>> So what you're saying, Brian, is that you're willing to be intimidated into
>>> giving up your rights, because the big boogeyman TSA agents can do too much
>>> to you if you don't do exactly what they say, whether it's illegal or flies
>>> in the face of every battle we have fought long and hard for as an
>>> organization?
>>> 
>>> Just want to be sure I understand here.  Because the TSA said that of nearly
>>> 3,000 blind people going through the airport, I'm the only one who insisted
>>> that I had a right NOT to be led around like a child, denied the use of my
>>> cane for travel.
>>> 
>>> Joseph
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 09:07:58PM -0400, Brian Miller wrote:
>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>> 
>>>> I don't think anyone feels that Joe was treated well, or with the
>>>> respect he deserves, but security checks are a serious hassle and a
>>>> drag for everyone, and indignities abound.  I think solidarity across
>>>> the board, and not just for blind people, is in order.
>>>> 
>>>> I merely say that for me using my cane to walk a few feet through the
>>>> metal detector is not worth fighting over -- the last thing I need is
>>>> to end up on a "no fly" list.  The point is, you are exactly right that
>>>> the blind have been fighting, and getting arrested, and going to jail,
>>>> for years over our right to have our mobility devices, and we've won
>>>> some, and lost many others.  I think we need to figure out where to
>>>> focus our energies to maximize independence while recognizing that we
>>>> face a very difficult environment in which to make our arguments when it
>>> comes to security.
>>>> 
>>>> Heck, we still don't, and maybe never will, have the right to sit in
>>>> the emergency row -- now that makes me feel more like a child than does
>>>> a quick guide through the magnetometer .
>>>> 
>>>> Not long ago Dr. Fred Schoeder was denied the right to fly to a meeting
>>>> because he was traveling alone... Granted, this was not in the United
>>>> States, but that kind of right of freedom of movement, is something I'm
>>>> willing to lie down on the tarmac for and go to jail.... Maybe not a
>>>> jail in Thailand, though *smile*
>>>> 
>>>> In any case, I don't think Alicia, or any of us, are trying to miminize
>>>> the fight we all face.
>>>> 
>>>> Brian M
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:30 AM
>>>> To: Alicia Richards; NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Alicia and everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> The next time you pass through a TSA Check point we'll cut both of your
>>>> feet off and demand that you walk through like anyone else. Blind
>>>> people have fought long and hard to be allowed to keep their canes and
>>>> dogs with them at all times while passing through TSA check points and on
>>> planes themselves.
>>>> Blind people were arrested and went to jail to insure these rights are
>>>> protected and we don't need our own people telling us that it's not a
>>>> big deal.
>>>> 
>>>> Peter Donahue who along with Mary took their last flight ever on a
>>>> commercial airliner and can look forward to avoiding TSA screeners in
>>>> the future!
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Alicia Richards" <alicianfb at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I agree with Mike and others here.  Yes, the TSA has been given too
>>>> much power.  It's shameful that they can perform such invasive
>>>> patdowns, violating one's personal space and dignity.  but as Ryan
>>>> said, that's not a blindness issue: they can do that to anyone.  And,
>>>> I've never understood people's issue with giving up their cane for 30
>>>> seconds, taking someone's hand to walk five steps through the security
>>>> check, and then have their cane handed right back to them.  I question
>>>> someone's mobility training if they are unable to walk five steps
>>>> without their cane, and also can't help but wonder if they're
>>>> exhibiting what I believe was once called, "rebellious independence,"
>>>> by refusing to take the hand or arm of a TSA official for that very
>>>> brief time.  But to each their own.  Joseph, I'll be curious if you get a
>>> reply from Scott LaBarre about this?
>>>> 
>>>> Alicia
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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