[nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV
Tue Jul 12 15:54:01 UTC 2011


Hi Brian,

Usually, I have preferred to take the chain off the standard NFB long white cane I use.  I don't like the sound of a chain on a cane.  (grin.)  The metal tip just doesn't set the machines off too much.  Many models of the NfB cane have a plastic top, not a metal one, and that helps too.  When I walk through the scanner, I try not to touch either side with either the cane or my arms, etc.  That does seem to make a difference as well.

for those who wonder why I insist on using the cane, rather than taking the arm of a TSA guide, it's because I am no different than others who believe it is not necessary to do so, and I at least am uncomfortable getting help where I don't think it is needed.  I know others think differently, and I don't usually think less of them for functioning as they do.

/s/

Bennett Prows

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian Miller
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 8:42 AM
To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

Hi Benet,

Thanks for sharing your stories, perspective, and wise observations.  

I'm really curious, though, as like you, I travel a fair bit -- more than
most, less than others, and I've always avoided taking my cane through the
detectors as I have had it set them off too many times... I have your
standard NFB long white cane with a metal tip, and sometimes with a metal
chain.  

You say your cane never, or rarely sets off the machine -- I wonder what
others who use the same kind of cane experience?

Brian M


-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Bullis
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 11:09 AM
To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

Very well said Ben.  I'm glad to see somebody put this into some
perspective.  And, you were nice about it, not questioning the motives and
actions of others, not ranting, Etc.  Maybe I'll continue to read this list
after all.
Mike Bullis


-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR)
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 10:49 AM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

What we need here is calm.  This is a frustrating issue, that isn't going to
foster consensus any time soon, unless we all organize an acceptable
response that works for the vast majority of us, and then we all act
accordingly.  However, as many different points of view, as there are, and
emotions that run through the security checks done by TSA folks, I think we
may be trying to herd cats here.  

My experience with tSA in Florida was that just at the time I was going to
go through the metal detector *using my *cane*, one TSA guy said I need to
take your cane to x-ray it.  I explained that I understood, and that I would
stop on the other side of the machine after walking through with my cane
which most likely wouldn't set the machine off, and give it to him to do
with whatever he wanted.  He told me to go ahead, I went through without
incident, handed him my cane, waited a few seconds, and he gave it back
after putting it through the scanner.

In other airports, I have had, ..., shall we say, firmer discussions, but
none has resulted in more than a few minutes of checking, explaining, then
walking through the scanner with my cane in tact.

I may have been lucky so far.  but, I do travel more than some, and less
than others.  Usually, and I emphasize *usually, I get through security at a
comfort level I can tolerate.  Though, all that having been said, I still
hate airports, security, airline folks that assume I am not capable of
thinking, walking, talking, understanding, etc, just because I don't see.  

One final story.  A colleague and I were flying back to Seattle after
convention.  Everything had gone quite well throughout the day.  In fact,
Mike Freeman, his wife, and we had a nice opportunity to kill time in
hotels, airports, etc, while waiting for time to fly.  But we got into a
short conversation about the frustrations at airports, etc somewhere along
the way.  I got to Seattle, and was headed for the baggage claim, and a
large gentleman asked me if I needed help getting to baggage claim.  I said
something like, just a little direction.  And, of course, he said "oh here,
I'll help", and proceeded to wrap a large arm around mine.  And, I guess in
frustration, or without thinking, I said, "Hey, don't do that, ..., it just
bugs the expletive* out of me."  It surprised me, because I don't even like
the expletive I uttered, (which begins with a letter other than S.)  He
didn't really run away, or apologize, just said something like he was just
trying to help.  I apologized for the language, but tried to explain it was
his physical action that got to me.  I also said I appreciated his intent to
give me direction though, but by then, he'd left.  I felt bad, because he
may not think to assist anyone in the future.  But, don't I have the right
to get angry at some point too?

Anyway, have a nice day, and hope your travels are rewarding.

/s/


Bennett
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 8:29 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

So what you're saying, Brian, is that you're willing to be intimidated into
giving up your rights, because the big boogeyman TSA agents can do too much
to you if you don't do exactly what they say, whether it's illegal or flies
in the face of every battle we have fought long and hard for as an
organization?

Just want to be sure I understand here.  Because the TSA said that of nearly
3,000 blind people going through the airport, I'm the only one who insisted
that I had a right NOT to be led around like a child, denied the use of my
cane for travel.

Joseph


On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 09:07:58PM -0400, Brian Miller wrote:
>Hi Peter,
>
>I don't think anyone feels that Joe was treated well, or with the 
>respect he deserves, but security checks are a serious hassle and a 
>drag for everyone, and indignities abound.  I think solidarity across 
>the board, and not just for blind people, is in order.
>
>I merely say that for me using my cane to walk a few feet through the 
>metal detector is not worth fighting over -- the last thing I need is 
>to end up on a "no fly" list.  The point is, you are exactly right that 
>the blind have been fighting, and getting arrested, and going to jail, 
>for years over our right to have our mobility devices, and we've won 
>some, and lost many others.  I think we need to figure out where to 
>focus our energies to maximize independence while recognizing that we 
>face a very difficult environment in which to make our arguments when it
comes to security.
>
>Heck, we still don't, and maybe never will, have the right to sit in 
>the emergency row -- now that makes me feel more like a child than does 
>a quick guide through the magnetometer .
>
>Not long ago Dr. Fred Schoeder was denied the right to fly to a meeting 
>because he was traveling alone... Granted, this was not in the United 
>States, but that kind of right of freedom of movement, is something I'm 
>willing to lie down on the tarmac for and go to jail.... Maybe not a 
>jail in Thailand, though *smile*
>
>In any case, I don't think Alicia, or any of us, are trying to miminize 
>the fight we all face.
>
>Brian M
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:30 AM
>To: Alicia Richards; NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>
>Hello Alicia and everyone,
>
>The next time you pass through a TSA Check point we'll cut both of your 
>feet off and demand that you walk through like anyone else. Blind 
>people have fought long and hard to be allowed to keep their canes and 
>dogs with them at all times while passing through TSA check points and on
planes themselves.
>Blind people were arrested and went to jail to insure these rights are 
>protected and we don't need our own people telling us that it's not a 
>big deal.
>
>Peter Donahue who along with Mary took their last flight ever on a 
>commercial airliner and can look forward to avoiding TSA screeners in 
>the future!
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Alicia Richards" <alicianfb at gmail.com>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>
>
>I agree with Mike and others here.  Yes, the TSA has been given too 
>much power.  It's shameful that they can perform such invasive 
>patdowns, violating one's personal space and dignity.  but as Ryan 
>said, that's not a blindness issue: they can do that to anyone.  And, 
>I've never understood people's issue with giving up their cane for 30 
>seconds, taking someone's hand to walk five steps through the security 
>check, and then have their cane handed right back to them.  I question 
>someone's mobility training if they are unable to walk five steps 
>without their cane, and also can't help but wonder if they're 
>exhibiting what I believe was once called, "rebellious independence," 
>by refusing to take the hand or arm of a TSA official for that very 
>brief time.  But to each their own.  Joseph, I'll be curious if you get a
reply from Scott LaBarre about this?
>
>Alicia
>
>
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