[nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

[John Heim]

This is the one point that I think is relevvant to the NFB... Why is the 
approach so random? Why does each TSA agent seem to be making it up as he 
goes.? If they aren't going to let blind people explain the proper procedure 
to them, then they ought to already know it.

TSA agents need to be better educated.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando


Michael makes a good point.  There are thousands
of TSA screeners, each of whom bring different
things to the table, experience, emotions
etc.  So, while they all presumably receive the
same training, they all will interpret, use,
ignore it in different ways.  That is why we need to be flexible.

Back in the 80's I worked at a place that used
volunteers.  One was a United flight attendant
supervisor, and I talked to her about our ongoing
problems with the airlines, at the time.  She
said, "United has over 10l,000 flight attendants,
and one of the biggest problems for the airline
is to get all of them to act in the proper and
prescribed way."  I am sure this is true of any
organization that employs large numbers of persons who do the same job.

Dave

At 10:09 AM 7/12/2011, you wrote:
>Very well said Ben.  I'm glad to see somebody put this into some 
>perspective.  And, you were nice about it, not questioning the motives and 
>actions of others, not ranting, Etc.  Maybe I'll continue to read this list 
>after all. Mike Bullis -----Original Message----- From: 
>nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
>Of Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 10:49 AM To: NFB 
>Talk Mailing List Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando 
>What we need here is calm.  This is a frustrating issue, that isn't going 
>to foster consensus any time soon, unless we all organize an acceptable 
>response that works for the vast majority of us, and then we all act 
>accordingly.  However, as many different points of view, as there are, and 
>emotions that run through the security checks done by TSA folks, I think we 
>may be trying to herd cats here.  My experience with tSA in Florida was 
>that just at the time I was going to go through the metal detector *using 
>my *cane*, one TSA guy said I need to take your cane to x-ray it.  I 
>explained that I understood, and that I would stop on the other side of the 
>machine after walking through with my cane which most likely wouldn't set 
>the machine off, and give it to him to do with whatever he wanted.  He told 
>me to go ahead, I went through without incident, handed him my cane, waited 
>a few seconds, and he gave it back after putting it through the scanner. In 
>other airports, I have had, ..., shall we say, firmer discussions, but none 
>has resulted in more than a few minutes of checking, explaining, then 
>walking through the scanner with my cane in tact. I may have been lucky so 
>far.  but, I do travel more than some, and less than others.  Usually, and 
>I emphasize *usually, I get through security at a comfort level I can 
>tolerate.  Though, all that having been said, I still hate airports, 
>security, airline folks that assume I am not capable of thinking, walking, 
>talking, understanding, etc, just because I don't see.  One final story.  A 
>colleague and I were flying back to Seattle after convention.  Everything 
>had gone quite well throughout the day.  In fact, Mike Freeman, his wife, 
>and we had a nice opportunity to kill time in hotels, airports, etc, while 
>waiting for time to fly.  But we got into a short conversation about the 
>frustrations at airports, etc somewhere along the way.  I got to Seattle, 
>and was headed for the baggage claim, and a large gentleman asked me if I 
>needed help getting to baggage claim.  I said something like, just a little 
>direction.  And, of course, he said "oh here, I'll help", and proceeded to 
>wrap a large arm around mine.  And, I guess in frustration, or without 
>thinking, I said, "Hey, don't do that, ..., it just bugs the expletive* out 
>of me."  It surprised me, because I don't even like the expletive I 
>uttered, (which begins with a letter other than S.)  He didn't really run 
>away, or apologize, just said something like he was just trying to help.  I 
>apologized for the language, but tried to explain it was his physical 
>action that got to me.  I also said I appreciated his intent to give me 
>direction though, but by then, he'd left.  I felt bad, because he may not 
>think to assist anyone in the future.  But, don't I have the right to get 
>angry at some point too? Anyway, have a nice day, and hope your travels are 
>rewarding. /s/ Bennett -----Original Message----- From: 
>nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
>Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 8:29 PM To: NFB Talk 
>Mailing List Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando So what 
>youâ?Tre saying, Brian, is that youâ?Tre willing to be intimidated into 
>giving up your rights, because the big boogeyman TSA agents can do too much 
>to you if you donâ?Tt do exactly what they say, whether itâ?Ts illegal or 
>flies in the face of every battle we have fought long and hard for as an 
>organization? Just want to be sure I understand here.  Because the TSA said 
>that of nearly 3,000 blind people going through the airport, Iâ?Tm the only 
>one who insisted that I had a right NOT to be led around like a child, 
>denied the use of my cane for travel. Joseph On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 
>09:07:58PM -0400, Brian Miller wrote: >Hi Peter, > >I don't think anyone 
>feels that Joe was treated well, or with the respect >he deserves, but 
>security checks are a serious hassle and a drag for >everyone, and 
>indignities abound.  I think solidarity across the board, and >not just for 
>blind people, is in order. > >I merely say that for me using my cane to 
>walk a few feet through the metal >detector is not worth fighting over --  
>the last thing I need is to end up on >a "no fly" list.  The point is, you 
>are exactly right that the blind have >been fighting, and getting arrested, 
>and going to jail, for years over our >right to have our mobility devices, 
>and we've won some, and lost many >others.  I think we need to figure out 
>where to focus our energies to >maximize independence while recognizing 
>that we face a very difficult >environment in which to make our arguments 
>when it comes to security. > >Heck, we still don't, and maybe never will, 
>have the right to sit in the >emergency row -- now that makes me feel more 
>like a child than does a quick >guide through the magnetometer . > >Not 
>long ago Dr. Fred Schoeder was denied the right to fly to a meeting 
> >because he was traveling alone... Granted, this was not in the United 
> >States, but that kind of right of freedom of movement, is something I'm 
> >willing to lie down on the tarmac for and go to jail.... Maybe not a jail 
>in >Thailand, though *smile* > >In any case, I don't think Alicia, or any 
>of us, are trying to miminize >the fight we all face. > >Brian M > > > 
> >-----Original Message----- >From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>[mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Peter Donahue >Sent: 
>Monday, July 11, 2011 11:30 AM >To: Alicia Richards; NFB Talk Mailing List 
> >Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando > >Hello Alicia and 
>everyone, > >The next time you pass through a TSA Check point we'll cut 
>both of your feet >off and demand that you walk through like anyone else. 
>Blind people have >fought long and hard to be allowed to keep their canes 
>and dogs with them at >all times while passing through TSA check points and 
>on planes themselves. >Blind people were arrested and went to jail to 
>insure these rights are >protected and we don't need our own people telling 
>us that it's not a big >deal. > >Peter Donahue who along with Mary took 
>their last flight ever on a >commercial airliner and can look forward to 
>avoiding TSA screeners in the >future! > >----- Original Message -----  
> >From: "Alicia Richards" <alicianfb at gmail.com> >To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
><nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> >Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM >Subject: Re: 
>[nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando > > >I agree with Mike and others 
>here.  Yes, the TSA has been given too much >power.  It's shameful that 
>they can perform such invasive patdowns, >violating one's personal space 
>and dignity.  but as Ryan said, that's not a >blindness issue: they can do 
>that to anyone.  And, I've never understood >people's issue with giving up 
>their cane for 30 seconds, taking someone's >hand to walk five steps 
>through the security check, and then have their cane >handed right back to 
>them.  I question someone's mobility training if they >are unable to walk 
>five steps without their cane, and also can't help but >wonder if they're 
>exhibiting what I believe was once called, "rebellious >independence," by 
>refusing to take the hand or arm of a TSA official for >that very brief 
>time.  But to each their own.  Joseph, I'll be curious if >you get a reply 
>from Scott LaBarre about this? > >Alicia > > >__________


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