[nfb-talk] Fwd: Why did the National Federation of the Blind Condemns Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire?

[David Andrews]

Joshua:

You forwarded the message from a small state list with 20 or 30 
members, to a national list with hundreds of members.  You have given 
him a bigger soap box, and blown the whole thing up.  The guy raises 
some important issues, and the solution isn't to give him a soap box, 
or to attack him.

Dave

At 05:19 PM 10/4/2011, you wrote:
>I didn't want to deal with him, right on, because he may have been a
>spammer, or some ACB plant, set up to attack us.
>Blessings, Joshua
>
>On 10/4/11, T. Joseph Carter <tjcarter at spiritsubstance.com> wrote:
> > People should feel free to criticize Dr. Maurer or anyone else they
> > like.  It won't make them right, and this guy is obviously dead wrong
> > and too ignorant to even know WHY he's dead wrong.
> >
> > But you could've educated him.  He didn't know that Amazon's Kindle
> > was already an audio book reader.  He thought it was a printed book
> > reader.  It does that too, but we didn't so much care about the
> > Kindle when that's all it did.
> >
> > You didn't educate him.  And no, I'm not one of those Federationists
> > who believe you have some moral obligation to educate every fool who
> > wanders on to our lists, but the option existed and would've been to
> > the benefit of the blind if you had.
> >
> > I've a temper of my own, and there are certain individuals who have
> > managed to irk me enough that I've pretty much always got a short
> > fuse where they're concerned.  But don't let yourself put any one
> > person on such a pedestal that they can do no wrong.  They'll sooner
> > or later disappoint you.  Even Dr. Maurer, I'm sure.
> >
> > Friendly advice, perhaps worth only what you paid for it.  *smile*
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 04, 2011 at 03:27:00PM -0500, Joshua Lester wrote:
> >>I support the NFB, and love everything we stand for.
> >>I'll just tell all, right here.
> >>I was interested in the other group, because I was exposed to it, at
> >>LWSB in Little Rock, Arkansas.
> >>I went home, and did my research, and didn't like what I found.
> >>I found the NFB, (thanks, to my former Braille instructor.)
> >>Now, I've found a home, and I love my NFB family.
> >>I met Dr Maurer, last year, in Dallas.
> >>That was my first convention.
> >>I wouldn't have come out, as hard as I did, if this fool hadn't have
> >>criticized Dr Maurer.
> >>That, was the last straw!
> >>These people shouldn't come on here, and criticize what we stand for.
> >>Blessings, Joshua
> >>
> >>On 10/4/11, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>> hi,
> >>>
> >>> mad as you are, you are another example of how nobody can have a
> >>> different
> >>> opinion on these lists.
> >>>
> >>> Bryan Schulz
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> >>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:12 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fwd: Why did the National Federation of the Blind
> >>> Condemns Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Those creeps shouldn't even have access to our lists!
> >>>> Those losers are a waste of time, but I'm tired of crazies getting on
> >>>> our
> >>>> lists!
> >>>> We had a similar baffoon, on the NABS list, as well.
> >>>> I'm glad he got banned!
> >>>> Blessings, Joshua
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/4/11, Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net> wrote:
> >>>>> Why waste our time with this?  Nothing new from the simple minded sapps
> >>>>> who
> >>>>> oppose us surely?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Skype name:
> >>>>> barefootedray
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Facebook:
> >>>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Oct 4, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi, it's Joshua Lester.
> >>>>>> Look at what this idiot just sent, to the entire NFB of Arkansas!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>>> From: terrysteve at suddenlink.net
> >>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 13:59:48 -0500
> >>>>>> Subject: Why did the National Federation of the Blind Condemns Lack of
> >>>>>> Access to New Kindle Fire?
> >>>>>> To: tosheeler at cox.net, bkshfreeman at gmail.com, bfreeman0420 at gmail.com,
> >>>>>> vtscott at cox.net, leaann1967 at gmail.com, j.scholes at sbcglobal.net,
> >>>>>> bogan1265 at yahoo.com, geofynder at gmail.com, Gogetm00 at aol.com,
> >>>>>> hayleyksch at gmail.com, dave.mehler at gmail.com, walkercutoff at att.net,
> >>>>>> Donna.Walker at arkansas.gov, Matt.Lyles at arkansas.gov,
> >>>>>> lyles_j at sbcglobal.net, honestblindman at gmail.com, pat.nfb at att.net,
> >>>>>> bkkindle at yahoo.com, Teddey3000 at aol.com, james.worley at cox.net,
> >>>>>> twedwards1111 at gmail.com, anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com, deweycoursey at cox.net,
> >>>>>> lizngraves at yahoo.com, erp at uark.edu, mika_hooper at yahoo.com,
> >>>>>> Matteri at cox.net, donbrey at gmail.com, trinitymlovell at gmail.com,
> >>>>>> clj_smith at yahoo.com, arspurplegirl at cox.net, delreal93 at yahoo.com,
> >>>>>> ctroby at uark.edu, e.yarberry at gmail.com, jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu,
> >>>>>> gvwright2 at juno.com, lhwayland at sbcglobal.net, joshcrunkleton at gmail.com,
> >>>>>> showard826 at gmail.com, jsexson at live.com, sflesher at yahoo.com,
> >>>>>> diane403bill at suddenlink.net, abhoxeng at yahoo.com, hoxeng at aol.com,
> >>>>>> barefootinar at yahoo.com, peter-hoffman at att.net, kaylaltodd at gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Get a grip folks! There are many devices designed, manufactured and
> >>>>>> sold
> >>>>>> that are not "blind friendly". And rightly so! It was stated that "The
> >>>>>> feasibility of including accessibility in similar products has been
> >>>>>> demonstrated." As a result of this statement there must be devices of
> >>>>>> this
> >>>>>> nature that are "blind friendly". So the blind apparently do have this
> >>>>>> technology available to them. And just to put a point on it, the
> >>>>>> Kindle
> >>>>>> Fire
> >>>>>> is a PERSONAL devise, not a community device. There are dozens of
> >>>>>> devices
> >>>>>> that use touch screens. None of these are "blind friendly". I doubt if
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> technology now exists to make them "blind friendly".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This tirade by Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> Blind, is typical of individuals that get so fanatical about  an issue
> >>>>>> they
> >>>>>> have loose touch with the reality of the real world in their
> >>>>>> unrealistic
> >>>>>> search for and unworldly and unobtainable utopia. I have books on my
> >>>>>> shelf
> >>>>>> that the blind cannot read; must all my books be audio? I have clocks
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>> my
> >>>>>> home that the blind cannot use to tell the time; must all my clocks be
> >>>>>> talking. I drive a car that the blind cannot drive. This is not me
> >>>>>> being
> >>>>>> unsympathetic to the blind or to the cause of the blind, it is me
> >>>>>> being
> >>>>>> realistic in my reality. There is technology that the blind cannot use
> >>>>>> because they are blind. Sorry, FACT! There is technology that cannot
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>> made
> >>>>>> available to the blind due to our level of technology at this time.
> >>>>>> Touch
> >>>>>> screens in use by many devices again come to mind. Can't we focus on
> >>>>>> what
> >>>>>> can be done and what needs to be done. Not on minor issues as that
> >>>>>> below?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dr. Maurer should rethink his position regarding Amazon, waste not his
> >>>>>> energy on such nonsense and concentrate on those things which actually
> >>>>>> help
> >>>>>> our cause. Senselessly attacking anything that is not "blind friendly"
> >>>>>> actually hurts the cause. Using some common sense in choosing the
> >>>>>> issues
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> tackle is important to our cause.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lets tone down the rhetoric and concentrate on issues that help our
> >>>>>> blind
> >>>>>> friends and make the public aware of their real needs and not insist
> >>>>>> on
> >>>>>> unnecessary requirements that turn the public against us and out cause
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> make us look like foolish fanatics. Stop hurting our cause with self
> >>>>>> serving
> >>>>>> rhetoric.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Steve Terry
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: <tosheeler at cox.net>
> >>>>>> To: <bkshfreeman at gmail.com>; <bfreeman0420 at gmail.com>;
> >>>>>> <vtscott at cox.net>;
> >>>>>> <leaann1967 at gmail.com>; <j.scholes at sbcglobal.net>;
> >>>>>> <bogan1265 at yahoo.com>;
> >>>>>> <geofynder at gmail.com>; <Gogetm00 at aol.com>; <hayleyksch at gmail.com>;
> >>>>>> <dave.mehler at gmail.com>; <walkercutoff at att.net>;
> >>>>>> <Donna.Walker at arkansas.gov>; <Matt.Lyles at arkansas.gov>;
> >>>>>> <lyles_j at sbcglobal.net>; <honestblindman at gmail.com>;
> >>>>>> <pat.nfb at att.net>;
> >>>>>> <bkkindle at yahoo.com>; <Teddey3000 at aol.com>; <james.worley at cox.net>;
> >>>>>> <twedwards1111 at gmail.com>; <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>;
> >>>>>> <deweycoursey at cox.net>;
> >>>>>> <lizngraves at yahoo.com>; <erp at uark.edu>; <mika_hooper at yahoo.com>;
> >>>>>> <Matteri at cox.net>; <donbrey at gmail.com>; <trinitymlovell at gmail.com>;
> >>>>>> <clj_smith at yahoo.com>; <hayleyksch at gmail.com>;
> >>>>>> <arspurplegirl at cox.net>;
> >>>>>> <delreal93 at yahoo.com>; <ctroby at uark.edu>; <e.yarberry at gmail.com>;
> >>>>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>; <gvwright2 at juno.com>;
> >>>>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>; <lhwayland at sbcglobal.net>;
> >>>>>> <joshcrunkleton at gmail.com>; <showard826 at gmail.com>;
> >>>>>> <jsexson at live.com>;
> >>>>>> <sflesher at yahoo.com>; <diane403bill at suddenlink.net>;
> >>>>>> <abhoxeng at yahoo.com>;
> >>>>>> <hoxeng at aol.com>; <barefootinar at yahoo.com>;
> >>>>>> <Terrysteve at suddenlink.net>;
> >>>>>> <peter-hoffman at att.net>; <kaylaltodd at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 6:19 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Fwd: National Federation of the Blind Condemns Lack of Access
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> New Kindle Fire
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: "Freeh, Jessica" <JFreeh at nfb.org>
> >>>>>>> To: Alpidio Rolon <arguza at attglobal.net>, Amy Buresh
> >>>>>>> <amy.buresh74 at gmail.com>,
> >>>>>> Art Schreiber <blindart at samobile.net>, Beth Rival
> >>>>>> <erival at comcast.net>,
> >>>>>> Bill
> >>>>>> Packee <alaskanfb at yahoo.com>, Bob Kresmer <krezguy at cox.net>, Carl
> >>>>>> Jacobsen
> >>>>>> <office at nfbny.org>, Cassandra McNabb <cemcnabb21 at yahoo.com>, Cathy
> >>>>>> Jackson
> >>>>>> <cathyj at iglou.com>, Charlene Smyth <cs.nfbwv at verizon.net>, "Christine
> >>>>>> G.
> >>>>>> Hall" <c.tessa4 at comcast.net>, Dan Hicks <danjhicks at yahoo.com>, Daniel
> >>>>>> Burke
> >>>>>> <burke.dall at gmail.com>, Don Galloway <dgalloway627 at gmail.com>, Donna
> >>>>>> Wood
> >>>>>> <donnajwood at cox.net>, Duane Iverson <diverson at samobile.net>, Elsie
> >>>>>> Dickerson
> >>>>>> <elsiedickerson at ymail.com>, Frank Lee <francois57 at comcast.net>,
> >>>>>> Franklin
> >>>>>> Shiner <fshiner at myfairpoint.net>, Fred Schroeder <fschroeder at sks.com>,
> >>>>>> Garrick Scott <gscott at nfbga.org>, Gary Ray <ghraynfbofnc at charter.net>,
> >>>>>> Gary
> >>>>>> Wunder <gwunder at earthlink.net>, Grace Pires <silvara at cox.net>, "J.W.
> >>>>>> Smith"
> >>>>>> <jwsmithnfb at verizon.net>, James Antonacci <president at nfbp.org>,
> >>>>>> Jeannie
> >>>>>> Massay <Jmassay1 at cox.net>, Jennifer Dunnam
> >>>>>> <jennifer.dunnam1829 at gmail.com>,
> >>>>>> Joe Ruffalo <nfbnj at yahoo.com>, John Batron <jbatron at maine.rr.com>,
> >>>>>> John
> >>>>>> Fritz
> >>>>>> <johnfritz at centurytel.net>, Joy Harris <joy.harris at dwx.com>, Joyce
> >>>>>> Scanlan
> >>>>>> <joyce.scanlan at earthlink.net>, Ken Rollman <gatorbumps at rushmore.com>,
> >>>>>> Kim
> >>>>>> Williams <rkvend at aol.com>, Kimberly Flores <kflores at nfb-texas.org>,
> >>>>>> Larry
> >>>>>> Posont <president.nfb.mi at gmail.com>, Lynn Majewski
> >>>>>> <majla at verizon.net>,
> >>>>>> Mary
> >>>>>> Willows <mwillows at sbcglobal.net>, Melissa Riccobono
> >>>>>> <melissa at riccobono.us>,
> >>>>>> Michael Barber <michael.NFBI at gmail.com>, Michael Freeman
> >>>>>> <k7uij at panix.com>,
> >>>>>> Mika Pyyhkala <pyyhkala at gmail.com>, Nani Fife <nanifife at aol.com>, Pam
> >>>>>> Allen
> >>>>>> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>, Parnell Diggs <parnell at sccoast.net>, Patti
> >>>>>> Chang
> >>>>>> <pattichang at att.net>, Rena Smith <realhappygirl1 at gmail.com>, Ron Brown
> >>>>>> <rb15 at iquest.net>, "Gardner, Ron" <RGardner at nfb.org>, Sam Gleese
> >>>>>> <SGleese at city.jackson.ms.us>, Scott LaBarre <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>,
> >>>>>> Terry
> >>>>>> Sheeler <tosheeler at cox.net>
> >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:50:08 -0700
> >>>>>>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Condemns Lack of Access to
> >>>>>>> New
> >>>>>> Kindle Fire
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> CONTACT:
> >>>>>>> Chris Danielsen
> >>>>>>> Director of Public Relations
> >>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
> >>>>>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
> >>>>>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
> >>>>>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind Condemns
> >>>>>>> Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Baltimore, Maryland (September 29, 2011): The National Federation of
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> Blind commented today on the release of Amazon's new Kindle Fire,
> >>>>>>> which
> >>>>>>> cannot be used by people who are blind.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
> >>>>>>> said:
> >>>>>>> "Blind Americans have repeatedly asked Amazon to include
> >>>>>>> accessibility
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> the blind in its Kindle product line.  The feasibility of including
> >>>>>>> accessibility in similar products has been demonstrated.  The
> >>>>>>> Department
> >>>>>>> of Education and the Department of Justice have made it clear that
> >>>>>>> Kindle
> >>>>>>> devices cannot be purchased by educational institutions, libraries,
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> other entities covered by this country's disability laws unless the
> >>>>>>> devices are fully accessible.  Despite all this, Amazon has released
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> brand new Kindle device, the Kindle Fire, which cannot be used by
> >>>>>>> people
> >>>>>>> who are blind.  Enough!  We condemn this latest action by Amazon and
> >>>>>>> reiterate that we will not tolerate technological discrimination.
> >>>>>>> The
> >>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind seeks nothing less than equal access
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> all technology for blind people.  It is one of the most critical
> >>>>>>> civil
> >>>>>>> rights issues facing blind Americans in the twenty-first century, and
> >>>>>>> we
> >>>>>>> will do everything in our power to see that this right is secured."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ###
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
> >>>>>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>> the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
> >>>>>>> advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
> >>>>>>> independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the
> >>>>>>> blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind.  In
> >>>>>>> January
> >>>>>>> 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan
> >>>>>>> Institute, the first research and training center in the United
> >>>>>>> States
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> the blind led by the blind.